Cloud collaboration vs real collaboration

[midnightrambler]

So, ok, this is going to come across as a bit of a moan, but yesterday I attempted a kind of "jam" with a guitarist (who incidentally was in the same room as me, i.e. not halfway round the world). I put him in loop record, and gave him just a click track, looped him round 8 bars, with the idea that I'd just start adding stuff as I went along. New track - TRACK PAUSE - vibe killer. New plug-in - TRACK PAUSE - vibe killer. Click momentarily stops, guitarist gets out of whack, vibe killer.

I think my point is this : don't we have the kind of computing power yet where we can just seamlessly add stuff, add tracks, add delays, add plug-ins, take stuff away, while the track's playing, without this damn PAUSE and STUTTER every time you try and change something? Rather than collaborating with someone I don't know halfway round the world, I'd rather AVID found a way to get this stuff seamless and a bit more 21st century.

[rockridge]

If you look at the video that Avid put out, it shows two guys going back-and-forth recording parts for a commercial. Just business.

But two guys jamming... I would just arm a few tracks, press record, and keep going until you're satisfied.
You're going for ideas, not a finished product.

Could the same thing be achieved using cloud collaboration?
We won't know for at least a few years.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by rockridge

But two guys jamming... I would just arm a few tracks, press record, and keep going until you're satisfied.
You're going for ideas, not a finished product.

I think you've completely missed my point, but thanks anyway.

[DetroitT]

"PAUSE and STUTTER every time "

Agreed it's always been to some extent in Pro Tools.
However, different systems of pro tools as-well as plug-ins do this to different degrees.
From barley noticeable adding sends, EQ's and gates..All native and stock to 3rd party plug-ins and dsp systems that pause and catch up.

Different native apps like "Live" do this better. (Now) it's vaporware to think avid has this. They're promoting it may be collaborative but not likely to be seamless during soft patching and inserting.

[NewdestinyX]

So what kind of broadband connection is needed for this cloud collaboration to work?

[deanrichard]

It isn't a matter of computing power, it's a matter of how an app is organized and crafted. But the idea that adding tracks in real time should be seamless is asking a lot, and I'm not sure how many apps can do it. And while many apps will let you add plugins seamlessly, if there are latency changes for the plugin (UA for example) that can affect things the track until playback is stopped and started again.

The first response in this thread, in which the poster suggested you simply create a few extra tracks before you begin, is good advice if "vibe" is critical to you. You might also try to anticipate plugins you would might want to use.

You might find an app aimed at jam type of input that works better for your needs. It doesn't need to otherwise be very sophisticated.

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

So, ok, this is going to come across as a bit of a moan, but yesterday I attempted a kind of "jam" with a guitarist (who incidentally was in the same room as me, i.e. not halfway round the world). I put him in loop record, and gave him just a click track, looped him round 8 bars, with the idea that I'd just start adding stuff as I went along. New track - TRACK PAUSE - vibe killer. New plug-in - TRACK PAUSE - vibe killer. Click momentarily stops, guitarist gets out of whack, vibe killer.

I think my point is this : don't we have the kind of computing power yet where we can just seamlessly add stuff, add tracks, add delays, add plug-ins, take stuff away, while the track's playing, without this damn PAUSE and STUTTER every time you try and change something? Rather than collaborating with someone I don't know halfway round the world, I'd rather AVID found a way to get this stuff seamless and a bit more 21st century.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by deanrichard

The first response in this thread, in which the poster suggested you simply create a few extra tracks before you begin, is good advice if "vibe" is critical to you. You might also try to anticipate plugins you would might want to use.

Well yes this is how everyone's always had to work in the past, but what I'm suggesting is it's about time PT - or the plug-in manufacturers, whoever's to blame - got a little smarter....so the plug-ins initialise in the background, or whatever it takes to make this stuff a bit more seamless, responsive, immediate, etc etc. You wouldn't expect a tape machine to just clunk and stutter and stop, not unless there was a real problem with it anyway. We should demand the same of our DAWs. Even when mixing that CLUNK STUTTER PAUSE is just such a drag.

Originally Posted by deanrichard

You might find an app aimed at jam type of input that works better for your needs. It doesn't need to otherwise be very sophisticated.

Well this is an idea too.....

[ArKay99]

You can do this in Studio One. I used to stop the transport in Pro Tools because of this. In S1 I can add tracks (either audio or Instrument tracks), add FX even to outboard, even UAD stuff. I can remove tracks, change assignments, etc. I used to cringe when I found out you can do this and started doing it. Now I try stuff to see if I can make it hiccup. The only time there is the slightest issue, and it doesn't cause any transport hiccup is if I add a UAD plug while there is audio playing on the track. Depending on the 'weight' of the plug and I guess how much the DAW is contending with I'll get a pop or click. It's really cool. You can even set it to 'record to layers', so that your stuff is recorded to a new 'layer at the beginning of each loop. Then later you can 'comp' (edit pieces of) the good layers together into a killer track

For tracking this way, yes Pro Tools is a dinosaur, but for mixing it has a lot of great stuff that I miss. VCA style groups is one off the top of my head. But S1 is only at version 3.

[midnightrambler]

I see Studio One is getting quite a lot of hype / interest at the moment. What's the learning curve like?

[NipL]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

I see Studio One is getting quite a lot of hype / interest at the moment. What's the learning curve like?

I agree it's a hype.
I feel they complicated midi far too much if using external midi gear - plenty things to set up to record the controller you want etc. You cannot simply arm for record - if not echoing/monitoring midi - no midi controllers are recorded. Not a problem with VI, but may be external gear.

EDIT: S1v3 have track templates, my bad - not highly marketed is seems.

The new stuff with S1 v3 with multiinstrument and multi FX or what they called is easily made in PT too - if having what you need as VST instruments too you can use Metaplugin to host those and do everything S1v3 do.

But if S1 still is good alternative to PT I cannot say - never had hands on with PT.
Reaper is probably best first alternative - and to me Sonar is current choice. But am just a songwriter making demos feasable for final production - full time.