Live Recording Mackie 16 channels into 16 PT channels

[67Thunderbird]

I have recently started taking my MacBook Pro on the road along with a Focusrite 18i8. My aim was to record live straight into PT v10 and mix/ master at home in PT.
I have had some success but also encountered a few issues. I got some great signals directly from venue mixers RCA record out. But I'm relying on the house mixer so ideally I want my own signal. I tried using insert sends with the jack half in and I got a signal but if the gain staging is not right the signal strength is too low.
So my question. What Mixer will allow me to run single signals for each mixer channel directly into my Focusrite. Do I need a mixer with a designated line out per channel or could I still use the insert out provided I was controlling the gain ( use a splitter and take my own signals to my own mixer). I'm just trying to record live and mix in Pro tools. Currently looking at a Mackie CR1604-ZLZ 16.
If anyone has a tried and tested solution id be grateful.

[dr_daw]

What I use in this situation is a Rapco Isolated split snake (16ch's) then use the 8 Pre's on my Saffire Pro 40, and have an Octopre MkII connected via ADAT for the other 8 ch's. This way, I can control the gain individually from the FOH or Monitor desk. Split snakes aren't cheap, well, you can get non-isolated ones which may result in noise in FOH. This will likely upset the live sound engineer. ART makes 8ch rack mount iso splits.

If you're not sure what I mean by a split snake. It's essentially a multi channel 'Y' cable that enables sending 1 microphone signal to at least two different inputs. The iso, means Isolation, in that there is a transformer used to take care of any nasty noise that may be induced, they generally also come with a ground lift.

[67Thunderbird]

Yep I know what your talking about. I'll go down that path in 12 months time as I would need a whole heap of cables as well . My priority at the moment is a live recording session in a studio. I could use the bands mixer but I'll probably try and pick up one of my own. I'm just not 100 percent sure if the signal from the effect insert jack will work. I need single signals from each channel. Maybe there is a mixer that has a specific line out per channel but ideally this is eqd.

[dr_daw]

Ah I'm following you now...Using the inserts will totally work, but you have to know which is send or return...on the vas majority of mixers, the ring is send. This means if you're using the insert, you have to 1/2 jack the 1//4" cable. I did this for years with a Behringer mixer and a Delta 1010lt. Works well because the insert is pre-eq etc on that board. Some Allen & Heath boards (old mix wizards) have direct outs that a pre eq. How many pres does the 18i8 have? I imagine 8? Does it have ADAT? It's probably cheaper to pick up a 8ch mic pre like the OCtopre or similar. Got mine for $350

[67Thunderbird]

18i8 has 8 inserts but only 4 pres. It has light pipe so I can add an Octo or a Berenger 8200. The octo will add 4 pres at 96 or 8 at 48khz. Undecided yet on 44.1 or 96. Someone Rolfe me it goes down to 44.1 in the end but that's over my head. If my Digi 003 won't let me mix at 96 then I will probably go the ADA 8200. A new octo pre is almost 900 Aussie dollars which is about 600 more than the 8200. Are the pre's that much better. Finally, I think I'd prefer the mixer out signals to be eqd even if just a little or should I be leaving my signal clean.
Thanks again it's a massive help

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by dr_daw

Ah I'm following you now...Using the inserts will totally work, but you have to know which is send or return...on the vas majority of mixers, the ring is send.

And remember, usually insert point breaks signal path on the mixer, so if you use that for recording, you need to short-circuit the TRS plug to TS plug so the recorded signal actually gets fed back to the mixer too. If you just use TR and leave S open, it very well might be that the mixer is left without signal.

But you should go there only if the mixer does not have individual direct outs, which any decent quality mixer should have. Those are usually balanced TRS which would be better than insert point which are usually unbalanced (one TRS plug for send and return) and rarely balanced (two TRS plugs, one for send another for return).

Using either (direct out or insert point) will rely on the preamp and gain setting of the mixer so you will need to make sure that the FOH mixer knows about this and takes care setting the preamps so it is suitable for both and then never touch them while the show is going.

[67Thunderbird]

Cool. Got it. Thanks. I'm looking at a Mackie which has 8 designated outs post eq so if I need more ill patch in from an insert using TS half jacked.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by dr_daw

on the vast majority of mixers, the ring is send

Funny that I never thought about this until now. Someone who ever designed this made a huge mistake. It would have been very intuitive if it was S(leeve) = S(end) and R(ing) = R(eturn). But no, it's the opposite.

[67Thunderbird]

I think the naming convention came later

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by 67Thunderbird

I think the naming convention came later

TRS plug is old as hell, and most likely the person who first did it didn't think anything; except "well I'm first going to send this stuff out and it returns later. so I'm utilizing this first part of the plug first and later part later" like the engineers think.