Question regarding both HDX and Carbon

[digiot]

Originally Posted by LFO

Well, for myself I prefer to to everything from beginning to end in Protools (although I also use Ableton Live but for things impossible in Protools) and you're right VIs are not really easy inside ProTools, so I use VE Pro mostly using a second computer to host VIs. To me it's a very convenient way.

Yup, I have 4 slave computers running VEPro to work on orchestral mock ups. I hardly use VI's inside Protools. For lighter VI usage I just run VEPro on the same machine as Protools.

[digiot]

Originally Posted by nst7

Just curious, you guys using VE Pro, especially on a second computer, are there advantages to that vs. hosting your instruments in another DAW, such as Logic?

If you are at al serious about VI's you should at least look up some of the videos on the VSL website. I have been using them since version 1.
You could also download a demo and try it out.

[LFO]

Originally Posted by nst7

Just curious, you guys using VE Pro, especially on a second computer, are there advantages to that vs. hosting your instruments in another DAW, such as Logic?

To me it’s simpler with VE pro, routing very flexible with just an Ethernet connexion and Protools store all the VE configuration so all you have to do when working on a session in progress is to open it.

[Matt Hepworth]

Just confirming Carbon's latency for output alone is ~6ms at 32 buffer 48kHz. About 7ms output with 64 buffer. That's what you'd be up against for VIs.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth

Just confirming Carbon's latency for output alone is ~6ms at 32 buffer 48kHz. About 7ms output with 64 buffer. That's what you'd be up against for VIs.

While it could be as I have not measured. BUT I am curious "confirming" according to what data or who exactly ? And any idea as to how it was actually measured ? I would be interested in confirming that on my system, thanks K....

[TNM]

Originally Posted by digiot

Yup all of that makes sense except for the fact that I don't understand people using Protools for composition with massive VI loads!? There are much better alternatives to Protools for that

I looooooooove pro tools for composition.

YMMV!
This coming from a hardcore logic user of 20 years prior my switch. Yep, 20 whole years, from 1997.
Now with the new drum sequencer which I have yet to install, drum programming is going to be much easier too.

[TNM]

Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth

Native is subject to buffer, protocol, converter delay, and driver. VIs are only affected by output latency, true. At 256 buffer that's about 9ms with Carbon and about 6ms with HDX. An Apollo WITHOUT LLM enabled (monitoring straight through PT and not using Console) is 6ms output latency at 256. Quantum is 5ms.

I agree Carbon and HDX aren't terrible for VIs, but if that's the focus they should be avoided, since native systems will provide superior latency for less investment.

However, HDX minimum buffer at 48kHz is 64 still, IIRC, while native interfaces are 32.
Taking all the above into consideration, the *absolute minimum* output latency is 4ms for Carbon, 2.5ms for HDX, 1.5ms for Apollo, and sub 1ms for Quantum.

Keep in mind this whole thread is about *native* plugins for input monitor paths with Carbon/HDX vs Native interfaces. Native is built for this and performs better. If we're talking audio input monitoring then DSP would come into play and Carbon (and, to a lesser extent HDX) would prove far superior to native RTL.

great to know.

when you say 4MS for carbon, I presume that's at 64 buffer...
but what sample rate? If that's 96K, that's very high.. if 48k, that's great. I can live with that for VI's.

Edit, just saw your more recent posts... I can't live with 7ms output for VI.. so that's scratched. I am always on the look for an all in one and never seem to find it. It just means the native driver side of carbon needs tons of work, IMO.
I think I am just going to get an intel second hand imac pro which will work with everything and continue to use my UADs in bootcamp with PT, as imac pro's work brilliantly with bootcamp and are quiet as (10 core model). I see one going for less than half what I originally paid for my 8 core lol..
Windows hasn't worked out with the Apollos as TBolt 4 is not compatible with TB3 adapters, so I have been using older USB devices and it's been a pain.
or I'll sell all my UAD gear and just get the new X6 or X8. Maybe that. They work in TB4 ports.
The lowest output latency on Apollo thunderbolt gets very low, even at 44K.

[Carl Lie]

One more thing about VI's. When running HDx in it's normal mode, VI latency is low. I can set an output buffer to 512 (44.1 SR) while using HDx and still record midi drum tracks with no noticeable delay.

I have HDx and love it. Having the power to add tracks later in the game at low latency is awesome.

C