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  #1  
Old 03-07-2005, 11:38 PM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

Does anyone else feel that Protools (as well as other DAWs) on OSX has been kind of one step forward and three steps back?

I really have been missing the days of OS9 lately. Yes, I love many many things about OSX. But Ive just about had it with how it has slowed down and hindered my work flow.

Overall sluggishness of OSX, even on a Dual 2.0 G5. Delays when opening windows, plugins and spinning beach balls. I have long since forgotten what it was like to run on a snappy OS9 Mix Plus setup. It seems like for the simplest, most basic tasks, my G5 is thinking, thinking away, really hard. Sorting thru thousands upon thousands of files just to open my plugin menu or my Bookmarks in Safari.

Not a SINGLE reliable softsynth or softsampler. Unusable latency issues with most virtual instruments. Man, Id take samplecell any day now, at this point.

Graphic intensive apps and OS that eat up precious CPU cycles just so my mom can have a pretty looking desktop and windows genie effecting and wooshing all over.

Buggy after buggy version of Protools, Which I really think is more Apples fault and Digi trying their best to keep up with Apple updates and trying to work around the cumbersome code of UNIX.

The list goes on. Again, sure, I love not having to restart after a crash, love true multi-threaded operation, and love the IDEA behind OSX. But, man, I am hating the performace hit Im taking. It seems with every update of Apple OS, Protools, and every new potentially cool virtual instrument I try, I feel like Im on my old Mac Quadra testing out betas. Who would have thought that the speed of my G5 in 2005 feels pretty much like OS8, yes 8, on my old Quadra. Its baffling!

Is this just in the Protools world or do the Logic nerds have the same issues? I wish I could just be happy with the pros and cons of OS9 vs OSX, but I really just wish that as we are moving into the future of DAW based recording, I could feel like we were moving forward, and not backwards.. But I dont see it happening.

MT
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2005, 12:14 AM
Wolfgang Eller Wolfgang Eller is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

Yes it slows down (I´m on a G4 933) but - knock on wood - 10th of april and I will have a 1 year crashfree PT on OSX.
That´s more than I ever had with OS9.

Cheers Wolfgang
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  #3  
Old 03-08-2005, 12:17 AM
Marketis12 Marketis12 is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

I think my post in the Sampletank 2 thread is further reinforcement of these issues.

"This thread just highlights the problem that we all have since Digi left us in the lurch in OSX. From my recollection after they abandoned the basic but oh so reliable and stable Samplecell they offered us Samplecell as a direct "replaacement".Ignoring the fact that SC had 32 inputs directly into the TDM environment and ST has only 2, Sampletank is a boy on a man's errand as a professional tool and highlights Avid's seeming disinterest in the music creation business and its focus on film and TV post and digital tape-ecorder replacement. in my experience ST is VERY unstable and a toy. On paper Kontakt is the only soft sampler that plays most formats without doing a complete conversion but I have found most NI instruments to be relatively unstable as RTAS plugs even tho I'm running 4.5 meg ram on a dual 2 gig G5. Elektrik piano is very fragile even tho it sounds great when running. We Logic users had until recently the option of running EXS24 in PT but this has, since Logic Pro, been denied us with the dropping of the HTDM Enabler. I personally use MachFive as my TDM softsampler but to use other formats you must use the inelegant convertor and use an ilok. Again it is stereo only even if you have 8 sounds loaded. The only professional option is to run a PC ;-( with giga studio. It totally misses the elegant simplicity of SC but at least IT WORKS. Thanks Digidesign for your sensitive understanding of your music users. "
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  #4  
Old 03-08-2005, 01:00 AM
aux aux is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

Well, one thing: I'm not missing OS 9 in any way shape or form. There are a few annoyances in the OS X system, occasional spinning beach balls, or SWOD, the spinning wheel of death, when opening plugins, crashes when a track track is record enabled/plugin (still with the cs8 update) but the overall performance is great compared to OS X. To be able to bounce a recording and work in the background, no restart after a crash, background processing, file managment and so on.

So no, I do not feel we're going backwards at all.
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  #5  
Old 03-08-2005, 01:04 AM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

Quote:
Yes it slows down (I´m on a G4 933) but - knock on wood - 10th of april and I will have a 1 year crashfree PT on OSX.
That´s more than I ever had with OS9.

Cheers Wolfgang
True, Im sorta in the same place BUT I have been thinking: Are the few crashes I had a week/month with OS9 THAT bad, considering all the slowdowns and MUCH LESS pro versions of PT and OSX? Im beginning to think that Id deal with OS9 crashes just for the beauty of the slim, snappy, plain old gray interface of PT. But then i wouldnt have ADC.. Hmm, but then I wouldnt have the pops and clicks of ADC in my audio files, Hmm.. But then I wouldnt have.......

Quote:
Well, one thing: I'm not missing OS 9 in any way shape or form. There are a few annoyances in the OS X system, occasional spinning beach balls, or SWOD, the spinning wheel of death, when opening plugins, crashes when a track track is record enabled/plugin (still with the cs8 update) but the overall performance is great compared to OS X. To be able to bounce a recording and work in the background, no restart after a crash, background processing, file managment and so on.

So no, I do not feel we're going backwards at all.
Maybe, but think of what we have LOST for extra stability of OSX. How can we be buying $3500 computers and $$$K Protools systems, but we cant have low latency and virtual instruments that work? Look in any magazine and 80% of its advertisements have to do with virutal gear in some way. None of it works professionally with PT on my $$$ rig.

Protools went from a simple tape recorder replacement for me that I wouldnt trust with much else (Pre-Mix Plus days), to an AMAZING virtual studio (with OS9 and Unity, and S.Cell, plugins, Masterlist CD, Logic Audio running in bgrnd reliably, solid MIDI, etc, etc) back to, um, a simple tape recorder replacement with no frills. Here I am now, and I cant even be sure that my MIDI will play back in time or that Ill even be able to EDIT or TRIM a midi note without some truly laughable happenings!


MT
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  #6  
Old 03-08-2005, 01:33 AM
Howardk Howardk is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

Quote:
Does anyone else feel that Protools on OSX has been kind of one step forward and three steps back?
Yes, very much so.

Quote:
Protools went from a simple tape recorder replacement for me that I wouldnt trust with much else (Pre-Mix Plus days), to an AMAZING virtual studio (with OS9 and Unity, and S.Cell, plugins, Masterlist CD, Logic Audio running in bgrnd reliably, solid MIDI, etc, etc) back to, um, a simple tape recorder replacement with no frills. Here I am now, and I cant even be sure that my MIDI will play back in time or that Ill even be able to EDIT or TRIM a midi note without some truly laughable happenings!
That has been my experience as well. Midi editing I did for years with my older mix system and HD on OS9 is almost impossible now due to weird responsiveness with selecting notes and other peculartities. . .
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  #7  
Old 03-08-2005, 01:53 AM
Mt.Everest Mt.Everest is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

Quote:
That has been my experience as well. Midi editing I did for years with my older mix system and HD on OS9 is almost impossible now due to weird responsiveness with selecting notes and other peculartities. . .
Yeah, I dont even bother posting about these major system wide bugs anymore (such as noted above and things like the ADC clicks and pops at the end of the audio file) . They are just so rampant and with 8 cs updates already and not a peep about these kind of serious issues, one can only hope that they are aware of them and that they arent cornered with no way to fix them.

Ill take a crash a day just to be able to edit or delete a damn midi note reliably!

MT

p.s. Remember 10k rpm Glyph SCSI Hotswap drives? Before total acceptance of FW drives did away with speedy zoom in/outs and snappy editing? Nothing like hearing my FW churn as I wait for it to slowly seek out the audio files for a re-draw at every zoom level! fun fun!
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  #8  
Old 03-08-2005, 06:44 AM
danickstr danickstr is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

well we shouldn't be suprised to hear from this corner of da werld when it comes to complaining about OSX/PT6.x. We have gone from set it and forget it to "was that a bug that was listed or is that a new bug I need to delete some wierd file to fix" "guess I better run a cold cock tale analysis"

Reliability in midi has been lost for a few Logic 4.x updates.

Stability is only available on PT now with a PC. Digi is not even boasting about all the fixes that will happen with PT7. Another bad omen. Digi also chimes in when they know there is a fix for someone....kinda quiet around here I must say...

Don't even start talking about softsynths. They are crashy.

That's the state of the union. Does a Texan run this company?
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2005, 07:56 AM
Seeee Seeee is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

If i was running HD, I would go HD core with process cards and stick with OS9 on a 933mhz Quicksilver.

I am running 5 dsp farms and 2 d24 cards on a 866 quicksilver running os9 and I dont envy you OSX early beta testers. I have EVERYTHING I need or will ever need.

DONT LET THE TECHNOLOGY DICTATE YOUR TOOLS. use the tools that you need.

much like the UIS never pulling out of iraq no matter how bad it gets, Apple is stuck with OSX and it has RUINED the "mac" experience. if I wanted to run unix, i would have bought linux. if i wanted dos, command lines, and a pretty gui, i would buy XP.

os9 works. plain and simple.

and i am crash free for a year as well.
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  #10  
Old 03-08-2005, 11:20 AM
uno1234 uno1234 is offline
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Default Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??

OS X Panther - 10 crashes a day
OS X Jaguar - 10 crashes a week
OS 9.2.2 - 10 crashes a year

'Nuff said.
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