Profile running FOH and Monitors

[timcain3]

I am trying to run FOH and Monitors from the same Profile.
I watched the webinar where Robert talked about running FOH and Monitors and he mentioned several times that you could "split" the console so that you basically double every channel (digitally) so you can have separate processing on every channel. Is there a place that I can read more about doing this b/c I do not understand how to make the console have 96 channels (48 analog and 48 digital). I understand how to patch 1 channel to 2 input strips, but that in turn reduces my available input strips. Any links or articles or advice would be much appreciated!!!

Thanks!!!

[timcain3]

So basically I want to have the things I need to mix for FOH on banks A and B and the things I need for monitors on C and D. Then I would flip to faders to adjust levels in the auxes for the in-ear mixes while on banks C and D.

just FYI, I have never had to mix FOH and Monitors from a console with this much capability before, so if I am thinking about this the wrong way, please shine the light for me.

Thanks!!!

[Tragic Dog]

There are many ways to mix FOH and Monitors from the same console. One way would be to double patch the channels. For instance Stage input one would be patched to both channel 1 and channel 2. This would allow you to have completely different everything on the channels EXCEPT FOR GAIN as the mic pre is being shared between the two channels. Which ever channel you want to set the gain for do so, the other channel you then use the digital trim to attenuate the input to where it is needed for that channel.

This is a cool way of doing it, but can eat up your channels quickly. a 32 input show becomes a 64 input show...

Another way to do it is more traditional and that is to just run the monitors off of an aux. your processing is shared, but in my opinion can make it easier to work around if you are running the console yourself.

If I've missed anything please someone chime in. :)

[Kenmillerjr]

It is actually a fairly simple process. In order to get the console to have 96 channels:

1) Enter config mode.
2) Go to Options>System
3) Hit the "Edit" button.
4) Select "96" from the Input Channels drop down menu.
5) Then, assign your inputs as desired on each layer. This will leave 1-48 already assigned as you had, but will give you 96 total channels instead of 48.

Configuring it this way is good, but note that it will require a lot more DSP. The gains on both channels are shared, meaning that if you double assign preamp 1 to channels 1 and 49 and then adjust the GAIN on either one of those channels, it will be reflected on both. Just keep that in mind, that is the only "shared" control of each, since you are dealing with the same mic pre.

[JButera]

I've been mixing FOH & MON from a DShow since late 2005 and it's one of the easiest consoles to do it on. After you follow the steps Kenmillerjr mentioned, spend some time working on channel layout. I like my C & D banks to not just contain the MON channels, but also mirror the FOH channels in terms of layout and placement on the console. That way by "Bass Mic" channel is in the same location no matter what I'm working on, and so on with the rest of the channels. I had to insert a few blank channels to get the spacing perfect but it's nice when you get it setup.

Not sure how many mixes your dealing with but I'm currently mixing 10 stereo IEMs, so my AUXs are full as well as 2 PQs setup with user assigns. I then use the other PQ outputs to route FX, unless it's a single channel; in which I just use the Direct Out to feed the FX plugin.

Almost forgot: Aside from say an MC mic or iPod channel, I duplicate everything. Even channels that I don't do a whole lot to such as say a set of keys; duplicate them anyways. I've found it's always nice to have full EQ and dynamics processing for IEM just in case you need to make the channel sit right in a mix. Hope this helps!

[Roland Clarke]

Double assigning the console, maybe the best way to go for some show's, but not for all show's. Firstly I would consider how many monitor mixes you need, whether they are IEM or wedges, how many players in the band, the size of the stage, the type of music, etc. All these things have a huge bearing on what is the best monitor strategy to follow. If you only have 3-5 players and it's fairly straight forward mix wise and you are using 3-4 mixes on wedges you might be best off with just using pre aux sends or a matrix mix.

When doing FOH and monitors, often the best strategy is to keep it simple, after all you want to be able to devote your time to the FOH mix, not spend time chasing things around for monitors. Well set-up, monitors with a good band, should almost take care of themselves.

If you want some more specific advice, perhaps you could post details of the band, instrumentation, type of venue's/stages and monitor requirements and we can offer some more specific tips?

[vikingthor]

don't know about the profile, but on the sc48 i split only vocals. since there is no option for more channels. and i control the splits by an event. fader FOH down, monitor channel mute, fader little bit up, monitor channel on.

[timcain3]

WOW!!!
Thanks for all the helpful feedback!
I thought I could give a few more details and see if you guys have any more suggestions.

I am in a portable church setting, so setting up and tearing down every week, with different musicians rotating in and out from different campus'. Our typical band setup is drums, bass, 2 electrics, 1 keyboard, acoustic guitar and 2 - 3 vocals. Everyone will be on wireless IEM's except for the drummer who will have a hardwired mix.

Can any of you guys explain how you would set up the console to handle 8 stereo IEM mixes, run the subs on an aux and still be able to use verb, delay and such if the 8 stereo mixes eat up 16 auxes? Also, how do you put verb in the IEM mixes?

I REALLY APPRECIATE all the help!!!

[JButera]

Tim,

As far as subs on an AUX, just take 1 stereo mix from your IEMs and use a PQ. With 8 user assigns as well as the ability to add other AUXs, Groups, or even your mains into it, you should be able to build a solid mix. The 2 players I have running from PQs are the guys who say "just give me a full cd sounding mix with my guitar on top" type people. Every band has at least 1.

For FX sends go to the Matrix section and use the 8 user assigns to select your 3 vocals, snare mics, and whatever else you'd like to send to FX plugins. Then Each Matrix becomes a FX send, such as Matrix1=KitFX. If 8 separate sends is not enough you can take 2 approaches. First, for a lead vocal or any single channel you need to send, use the console Direct Out to send to the plugin. Secondly, if your using the Direct Out for another purpose utilize the Snapshot capabilities of the console to automate the plugin and Matrix to swap between channel assignments on a per-song basis.

I have a few songs where a BV will lead a song and so on those songs I have the plugin switching it's input from the Matrix feed to the BV's Direct Out. By selecting "PRE" in the snapshot menu, any change in level is compensated for with the Direct Out level and stored within the snapshot parameter.

[Roland Clarke]

Set up for 8 auxes, 8 stereo subgroups. Pickoffs, pre fader.

I'd create subgroups for the following. Drums, bass, Guitars, Keys, Accoustic, BV's, Lead Vocal, FX. Use the "user assignment" (in the PQ's), to create seperate feeds for all the vocalists and the guitars (electric and acoustic), build your IEM mixes in your PQ windows.

This still leaves you the opportunity to run Aux fed subs and 7 FX sends, (how many do you need?).

Having the FX returns subgrouped you can control the amount of FX to IEM on a per PQ mix. If you really need more control than that, you could loose some FX sends and use some auxes to act as individual sends, overkill if you ask me.

Hope this helps.