Badly Mixed But Still a Hit - What Does That Mean?

[DonaldM]

The recent discussion about the article that talked about how ear phones affect music production got me thinking about other aspects of mixing.



I know many of you are pro audio production people. So I'd be interested to hear your perspectives on:


1. How does the mix affect (if at all) the "hit appeal" of a song? (Put another way, does the mix play any role in determining whether or not a song will be a hit?)


2. In your opinion, what are some examples from the past of lousy mixes of songs that still became top hits? (I can't help but think of "Louie, Louie" in this category) What made the song a hit anyway?


3. When you mix a song, what do you strive for?

[jeam25]

Hi Donald this is a good and extensive topic . This my humble opinion about it. Nowdays the perception of music had changed and changed a lot . For the bad or for the good , that depends on who are you and how much money are you making of it or loosing because of it.
I think the ordinay people has become less demanding about quality and substance because of multiple factors like, poor artists, poor musicsians, poor trending genres, poor songs BUT a lot of money. I am from Puerto Rico and something im not proud of is reggaeton music. For me this is not music but you have there artist like Benito ( Bad Bunny ) being #1 in the world in multioke charts and winning grammys can you beleive that ? The guy can't barely speak spanish right :-/ but he is trending and like him so many others. To be fair there is a lot of great artists and band making pretty good jobs fighting to stay alive in this sea of modern garbage saddly , but there they are so there is hope . The question is how the people judge music today and what is the majority of consumer ages . So with that tiny humble opinion in that huge size topic.

The genre if there are genres trending that with the right ingredinets , marketing and money are gonna be a hit.

There is no question for me that the engineer has a major part on that equation too in the artistic part. You can improve or break a song no matter the genre with a bad mix or master no question there.

And last when i mix i try to get the feeling or groove or the song and build around it.


This is no an absolute of course just my humble opinion about it and just barely touching it , like i said this is a good and extensive topic so i expect to be a huge post jaja.

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

2. In your opinion, what are some examples from the past of lousy mixes of songs that still became top hits? (I can't help but think of "Louie, Louie" in this category) What made the song a hit anyway?

I've been hitting my old LP collection lately, after having them stored away for 20 years, and some of the early John Lennon solo albums really sound like crap. But hey, it's Lennon!

I've been noticing also how often I hear flaws of various sorts in the old analog productions; small performance mistakes, noticable corrections in the mix mid song etc. I don't remember percieving it like that in the old days, I guess we're more used to perfection today.

I also notice how big differences can be between whole records in the overall sound, no wonder we needed the old bass and treble controls.

Headphones? 'Earphones'? I almost never use them. I trust the old stereo speaker sweet-spot to get my mixes right. And if it doesn't work on earphones… not my problem.

[nednednerb]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

1. How does the mix affect (if at all) the "hit appeal" of a song? (Put another way, does the mix play any role in determining whether or not a song will be a hit?)

3. When you mix a song, what do you strive for?

Hmmmm!

1. Personally, I think the history or cult of the Western Ego + technological mass production + money to do the complexity has had a more major influence on "hit appeal" than "the actual sound."

Looking back a couple centuries, in Europe, composers that were later remembered were often commissioned by kings and other lords to commemorate certain occasions. And then, by the end of the 1800s, with technology and colonization going (after a half century or so, further, sure) straight into outer space, literally, large performance halls were being constructed.

More and more, "popular music" even COULD exist with recording, reduplication, and radio. The way our "Western" culture esteems the hero and protagonist and individual, is VERY different I would propose than if the technological and recording history occurred within a VERY collectivist culture that esteemed groups and might have rarely and begrudgingly recorded individuals. (Does that remind anyone of orchestral recording standard? I think it should.)

To go further into history, also, musical instruments have existed for 10s of 1000s of years. Musical activity might have existed among hominids since well before Homo Sapiens Sapiens evolved. Therefore, we will keep making music, hit or no hit, I will firmly uphold in my own love of music and sound!

Therefore, with things changing so fast for last so many generations, I think these sorts of ideas are at least relevant, if it might also be able to analyze it with a more narrow, modern inclusion of concerns.

3. When I mix a song, I want to have fun, groove with it, and "meet in the middle" as I compare to my reference mixes.

[EGS]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

The recent discussion about the article that talked about how ear phones affect music production got me thinking about other aspects of mixing.



I know many of you are pro audio production people. So I'd be interested to hear your perspectives on:


1. How does the mix affect (if at all) the "hit appeal" of a song? (Put another way, does the mix play any role in determining whether or not a song will be a hit?)


2. In your opinion, what are some examples from the past of lousy mixes of songs that still became top hits? (I can't help but think of "Louie, Louie" in this category) What made the song a hit anyway?


3. When you mix a song, what do you strive for?

1. A great mix might help a song get noticed, but won't make it a hit.
2. Any Ramones hit
3. Have fun & make sure the artist/producer likes it. I like to pull reference mixes into the session, try to match gains as best as possible, and jump between song and ref mixes using Markers.

[DonaldM]

Some interesting thoughts here. I recall reading one well known sound engineer (can't recall who) saying that with today's technology its "never been easier for so many to make high-quality lousy music!"



I'm not sure I'll ever understand what makes a song a hit. It is definitely more psychology than technology!

[jeam25]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

It is definitely more psychology than technology!

Indeed

[its2loud]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

Some interesting thoughts here. I recall reading one well known sound engineer (can't recall who) saying that with today's technology its "never been easier for so many to make high-quality lousy music!"



I'm not sure I'll ever understand what makes a song a hit. It is definitely more psychology than technology!

It used to be radio play, that’s how Elvis became a star.

Now it’s YouTube and Social Media.

Catchy song with a catchy hook.

https://youtu.be/EK_LN3XEcnw

Terrible song. Huge hit

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

The recent discussion about the article that talked about how ear phones affect music production got me thinking about other aspects of mixing.

I know many of you are pro audio production people. So I'd be interested to hear your perspectives on:

1. How does the mix affect (if at all) the "hit appeal" of a song? (Put another way, does the mix play any role in determining whether or not a song will be a hit?)

2. In your opinion, what are some examples from the past of lousy mixes of songs that still became top hits? (I can't help but think of "Louie, Louie" in this category) What made the song a hit anyway?

3. When you mix a song, what do you strive for?

1: You could have a technically perfect mix but if the song itself isn't hit-worthy then it's not going to sell. You have to work to the target audience. Miss that and the tune is consigned to the dustbin of history.

2: 'Louie Louie' had/has a catchy beat and is a good party tune. It had a mix that fit the tune. All it was ever meant to be was a 3 chord piece that any bar band could play. Didn't need to be what some would call technically perfect.

3: Keep the client happy. Sometimes I'll present what I consider a so-so mix and the client will love it. And if I take that so-so mix and 'improve it' there are times the client likes the original mix better.

[albee1952]

Hmmm, what makes a hit song? Once you answer that, one of two things will happen. 1-you'll be famous, or 2-everything will change again(notice, I said "famous" and not "rich"? Thank you iTunes, Spotify, etc).

My own(also humble) opinion: First and foremost, a song has to connect with people on an emotional level. The mix doesn't deliver that. It USUALLY needs to be a great performance of a great song("great" performance can mean many things). For the most part, if the first 2 requirements are met, the mix needs to stay out of the way As said, many great hits have mistakes, silly mix issues(like; who decided the tambourine should be THAT loud), distorted vocals(Foghat???)...I know you get the point. Its this technology we have that makes it easy to fix so much that we forget that there is no "emotion" plugin or "catchy tune" processor Put great talent in a room with an Mbox and a couple of okay mics and you may get a hit. Put a bunch of so so people in a million dollar studio and you probably get a perfect recording of crap(of course, if that crap connects with people......)