Creating more complex loops

[ixnys]

So usually if I'm creating a beat whether it's pop or rap I'll compose it in protools using MIDI. I have Logic but I haven't taken the time to learn it yet. Anyways I'll usually set grid mode to 16th notes and draw in the snare on beat's 2 and 4...then add some kick's and then put in the hi-hat.

Anyways, I'll be listening to some sample loops from various sample cd's or say some acid loops. I'm blown away by how these loops sound so complex and cool.

So I just wanted to create a topic where people could post their loop making techniques. How can I create such crazy but awesome sounding loops. I'm just looking for more ideas to try out. Recently I've been making basic loops and then filtering them...that's pretty cool.

How many different sounds do you throw into your loops..i.e. how many different kick drums,hi-hats,snares,etc are present in your loops. Post links to your loops even.

[Matt Zeiner]

Although I am a loop neophyte, I came up with a relatively cool way to use fruity loops for creating some pretty hip loops: I start in PT with a good set of drum sounds from a session. Select individual hits and bounce them to disk as discrete stereo samples. Ill find 4-5 hits from each drum at different volumes/tone (like snare ghost, snare w/rim, snare med, snare hard, MANY different hat hits, and several different kick hits). Then import each sample into fruity loops as a separate instrument. Now you can start building beats by randomly choosing which tones you use where - set up the hardest hit samples with the highest volume, softest with softest. You can layer 4 snare smaples at once on the fly to make real rich hits, for example, while still maintaining the ability to add subtle ghost notes. For the hat, it is easy to set up the 8 hits to each hit a different sample! Doing things this way allows you to eliminate that drum-machine ffel while still maintaining that easy to program dum machine vibe! I export these loops into PT, or Ableton and go to town.

[2064]

Good advice from above. Sometimes I will use a combination of single drum hits and loops. For Eg I have a kik snr hat pattern but its not groovin enough. I will often find a note heavy loop which can be a real drummer, percussionist, or an electronic loop. The last 2 work better. Then I will use a LPF (Sony Oxford is good for this) and take all of the top end off the loop so that I can just hear the quite thud of the loop. I stick this behind the drum pattern I already have and I have a more instant groove with something going on in the bottom end that is more a feel thing. I may have to cut the loop to a quarter bar for that chugga, chugga, chugga kinda feel. I will also do the same routine with another loop but this time add an HPF and lob of nearly all the bottom end. That gives me my funky airy top end. Sometimes I have seen me run up to 6 loops and programmed drums.......Anything goes.

Theres a lot more to making drums groove. Sometimes just the right Kik, snr sound with a happening bass is all thats needed.

As usual no rules

PS
If you dont already have it stay away from Stylus. The loops imo are problematic to fit in the mix regrless what you do with them. The single drum hits are way to processed and not particularly useable. To this day I havent been able to use a single hit or loo from stylus (yes I´m a bit peeved at hving shelled out for stylus [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] . If you can be bothered start buying old records or CDs from any secondhand source. Thats where you will not only find great and useable loops of all genres you will also be inspired. Its boring to look for them but the rewards far outweigh the time involved building a truly original sample library. This is something that very few seem to do especially nowadays with all the sample libraries out there.
Good Luck
[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ixnys]

Well I'm not talking about trying to get live sounding samples and recreate a real drum feel. I'm talking about loops that sound electronic. The loop files you can load from acid loops. Those loops are just insane sounding sometimes. I'm trying to figure how to make wierd but cool sounding loops. Kinda like stuff that sounds cool but you can't figure out how the artist created those sounds and arranged everything.

[Quint Randle]

I recently started using Drums On Demand (www.drumsondemand.com). It totally sounds like a live drummer and you can really piece things together to create a convincing drum track. There are nearly 900 stereo loops organized into what are called “Song Sets” that feature, verse, chorus, fills, bridges, etc., and many variations on each. The disk has 41 Song Sets on it (almost 700 megs). It’s very well organized and the loop names make sense. They sound great and are very easy to put together. Then there are a bunch of single hits as well. Multiple snares, rims, brushes.

I’ve been impressed and have been able to put together a bunch of songs with it. The mixing and effects are pretty awesome too. It all ends up sounding like a studio drummer.

Bryce

[2064]

Ixnys,

You have had some decent tips here. Try reading the posts again and absorb the info. At least try some of the suggestions.

I spend my life making grooves of all sorts. Its a combination of programming and using loops creatively. DONT just use rex type files. Get creative. What you are hearing from those records that you dont know what is going on is a combination of the programming, sounds, and loops.

There is no quick instant button for this.

[img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Matt Zeiner]

Now that I know you are going after electronic type sounds, try this trick: Take 2 stereo tracks in PT and put the same loop on each track. Then insert a pitch-shifter as a hardware insert into both tracks. Try different combinations of nudging and pitch shifting - don't underestimate the power of natural flanging............. It is possible to take even the most natural sounding loop and make it sound downright robotic....MANGLE MANGLE MANGLE! Also - a good 2 track editor can be very useful - try cutting just the attack of a drum hit and paste it side by side and see whatyou get. Don't forget - it is often the results that you didn't predict that turn out the best sounds. Good god - it is so easy to make new and fresh sounds with some very simple tools....

[digz]

One cool effect you can try is layering a loop against itself, and time compressing/stretching the duplicates of the loop.

Example
1. Start out with a decent 1 bar loop, stereo or mono.
2. Duplicate that loop onto another track.

3. Time compress the duplicate so that it is 50% of it original length.

4. Now duplicate the time compresses loop one time on the new track so that you have two 50% length versions layered underneath your original loop.

5. Try it the opposite (time stretching) or try it with different division lengths.

This is a really cool way to add a thick and lively excitement to a loop, and the time compression adds artifacts that come across as dirtiness and a raw(er) sound.

You can play around with panning, filtering, and muting/triggered gating, to add even more excitement as well.

[ThatHitSound]

Taking your loop
and exporting it at 8bit
then combining back into
the original loop mixed to taste.....
adds some magic to a boring loop.

don't forget BASSLINES
a drump loop with out a bass line
gets very old quick, no groove at all.

[pk_hat]

I often use PT as a giant drum machine using single hits. There are so many approaches to getting interesting results, it's just a matter of experimenting with what you have.

Having 2 instances of one loop on separate tracks is a great starting point, as already mentioned. Effect them differently, tune one down by 4 semitones, slice one of them into separate regions using 'Tab to Transients' and reverse a few of the hits, create some fade-in and outs on other slices, and once that's done, go into Shuffle mode and go nuts moving those slices around, all while the original loop is still playing above.
Also good is to mute certain parts to create dynamics, say every other bar, delete 2 or 4 beats from one of the loops, then reverse the process later in the track.

FIlters, drastic eq and compression, vocoder, reverse delay, there's really no limit. Of course, using good quality samples, be it electronic or acoustic can make a huge difference as well.

As for Stylus, ditto here. The bundled loops, imo, are unuseable, but some of the single hits are nice. I'd much rather use an RTAS sampler (eventually) and use good aiff files, it's the way to go.
Good luck.