Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-16-2002, 08:09 PM
Paul Greyson Paul Greyson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Daly City, CA, USA
Posts: 397
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

I think you should take a closer look at the Pro Tools 6 file management features. There's some very powerful stuff in there. Certainly a lot more than the Nuendo "pool."
__________________
Paul Greyson
Digidesign Engineering
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-16-2002, 11:49 PM
F.J. F.J. is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Hollywood
Posts: 127
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

So Paul, will the Digibase allow you to look at all the audio files in a folder when using the import audio function or will it still come up with a window saying "there are too many items in this folder, some will not be shown"? When working with sessions with large numbers of audio files in a folder, I find it rediculous that I have to go to the desktop to find files and then drag them onto the protools icon to get them to appear in the session. Surely it wouldn't take that much extra programming on digi's part to be able to create folders or "bins" within the regions list window, so we people in post can organize files a little easier by having different folders/subfolders. Are any of the programmers at digi aware of how many audio files are associated with a feature, or even a one hour TV drama?
Frank.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-17-2002, 10:17 AM
C Roberts C Roberts is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 18
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

Hey JC & PG,
I did not intend to come in here and step on toes so for that I apologize. However, " Bins" are what I/we were told we would get. Those of us familiar w/ their ease and powerful simplicity would / will argue that Digibase is not quite a bin per say.
I think we were looking forward to simply "file ->open bin " and being able to grab something we need regardless of what session we are in and so on.
To be fair I did not get to see a real in depth look at PT 6.0 at AES so JC I will take you up on that and I'll agree to can the banter until I can give it a fair shake.
Just out of curiosity; Is the OSX version of AudioVision done yet? HA! Ha! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
__________________
It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-17-2002, 10:20 AM
Leon Horrocks Leon Horrocks is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: London, UK
Posts: 25
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

A big point for myself and many other editors is that AudioVision already has a very well-thought out media management system, whereas Pro Tools relies on the user to manage things in the finder to a much greater degree. Also one region list is simply not enough. As has been pointed out in this thread a reel from a film or a 60 or 90 minute TV drama has a lot of media in it, mostly that which comes from a Media Composer OMF. Which then begs the question, if the main product of the parent company features bins (which work like the AudioVisions) why doesn't it 's only audio platform? I my view a post production version of Pro Tools needs a re-think, back toward the AudioVision/Film/Media compser style, but retaining the features that make Pro Tools great.

This is not a new argument at all. As I said before, it was an Avid guy in Sydney who said to me in 1997 that AudioVision and Pro Tools would be merged into a super product, and another guy from a major re-seller of Avid and Digidesign products here in London also said that Bins would appear soon. That was before 5.1. we are now at 6.0. This is why people who are in the position of giving up AudioVision for Pro Tools are getting a bit hot under the collar. Where are these features? I am waiting to see if Digibase has a degree of user-customisation that can make it act like bins or better, but if it works through one region list....well.....I will reserve judgement until I see it, but these are serious issues for Digidesign to address for it's post market in my opinion, regardless of how many work arounds there are. There has already been a product that does all this, so why can't the soley developed one now? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-17-2002, 01:09 PM
skeezer skeezer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 175
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

GIVE ME A BREAK!

(I think you should take a closer look at the Pro Tools 6 file management features. There's some very powerful stuff in there. Certainly a lot more than the Nuendo "pool.")

I think that YOU should take a look at the AudioVision file management and its features!!!!!

i don't get it? If Digidesign owns that AV then why don't you know how it works? is it ego? is it time? is it laziness? what is the answer?

why should we settle on anything less than great? the AV was great! a far superior editor than PT even after death.

please answer me that simple question. just tell us that we will never see anything from the AV in any future versions of PT and be honest about it.

obviously you at Digidesign think that the PT way of doing things is better. well it's NOT!

you have the blueprint in AV. use it and make PT what you promised us.

it's an insult to me and every other AV user having to hear the same old lame excuses as to why we have to wait on this feature or that feature. Bins. how hard can it be? you have to re-code for OSX anyway. BINS!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-17-2002, 02:11 PM
Scott Wood Scott Wood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Daly City, CA USA
Posts: 68
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

You are correct that DigiBase functionality is not Avid Bins. What we have done is created a new extended file management technology that in many ways greatly expands the functionality a user has compared to the current Avid bin system capability. This system is not only aware of the metadata for the files you have specificly put in your "bin" but it is also aware of the same metadata information for any Pro Tools related file on ANY drive. Or removable library like CDs or Firewire drives. Or even your shared network libraries of sound effects, library music, or location recordings. DigiBase creates a data management system for everything it sees mounted on the desktop and it's all full metadata viewable and drag and drop to the timeline. However, what we could not get done in time for this release is the ability to import the previous Avid bin format into this new DigiBin database structure. You see, before DigiBase, Pro Tools was not aware of any files outside of the current session. Before we can import an Avid bin or the new Avid AFE files we needed to create a structure to import that information into. In the first release you will be able to import Avid OMF sequences and you will see the file information displayed in the columns of the DigiBase browsers. In the future we will do the same with AAF sequences and bins/ AFE files. It was a hard decision to delay the bin import feature but when we do it we don't want to be locked into the limitations of the previous system. In addition, the DigiBase functionality adds huge benefit to all Pro Tools users. I think we are taking the right steps first.
On a last note, I do think I'm well aware of the features and functions of an Audio Vision system as well as the entire Avid video editing family. It pains me to not be able to deliver everyones desires as we would love to be Santa to all people. But reality sets in and I think we are doing the things that make a real difference in the way that most people work. And by building core technology properly, it allows us to add other related features quicker in the future.
__________________
Scott Wood
Systems Integration Consulting
Digidesign
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-17-2002, 02:21 PM
skeezer skeezer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 175
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

babelfish translation:

we'll do it our way.
SO GET USED TO IT!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-17-2002, 03:39 PM
Scott Wood Scott Wood is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Daly City, CA USA
Posts: 68
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

How much time have you spent working with the new DigiBase?
What things other than importing Avid Bins are you concerned will not be there DigiBase? Please give me some details?
Or is it the Avid Bin importing THE major issue that is frustrating for you?
__________________
Scott Wood
Systems Integration Consulting
Digidesign
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-17-2002, 05:10 PM
Paul Greyson Paul Greyson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Daly City, CA, USA
Posts: 397
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

Quote:
Originally posted by F.J.:
So Paul, will the Digibase allow you to look at all the audio files in a folder when using the import audio function or will it still come up with a window saying "there are too many items in this folder, some will not be shown"? When working with sessions with large numbers of audio files in a folder, I find it rediculous that I have to go to the desktop to find files and then drag them onto the protools icon to get them to appear in the session. Surely it wouldn't take that much extra programming on digi's part to be able to create folders or "bins" within the regions list window, so we people in post can organize files a little easier by having different folders/subfolders. Are any of the programmers at digi aware of how many audio files are associated with a feature, or even a one hour TV drama?
Frank.
With PT6 you won't have to use the Finder for those kinds of operations. The region list is still flat, but the Digi file databases are hierarchical and you can have as many as you want. They're not tied to the session. You can work with them without a session open.

fwiw we're very well aware of the number of files you folks have to deal with. That's why we put a significant amount of effort into the DigiBase functionality. Like I said, you should take a look before passing judgement.
__________________
Paul Greyson
Digidesign Engineering
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-17-2002, 08:38 PM
digiengineer digiengineer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 504
Default Re: No bins in 6.0?

Quote:
i don't get it? If Digidesign owns that AV then why don't you know how it works?
Actually, Digidesign is a division Avid. So your beef is with the very company that created bins in the first place! With that being said, maybe you should realize that DigiBase is a VERY flexible and productive way of working. Spend some time with DigiBase, you may change your mind.

I work with A LOT of people in post at Fox, WB, Paramount, Sony, and Universal and NONE of them use AudioVision, and yet, they still produce hit TV show and movies that make a few 100 million dollars in a productive manner. I guess the proof is in the pudding.
__________________
Bryan Jackson
Independent Audio Systems Engineer
Burbank,CA / Las Vegas, NV
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Avid - Just asking (again) Can we please have bins/folders and AS Handles StefB Post - Surround - Video 0 09-14-2010 02:35 PM
Pro Tools 8 Bins & AS Handles PLEASE???!! StefB Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 26 06-30-2009 05:59 AM
bins BINS! B I N S !!!!!!!!!!!! donmr1 Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 20 03-15-2006 10:57 AM
still no bins at NAMM skeezer Post - Surround - Video 19 02-04-2003 08:21 PM
What are AAF sequences/bins & AFE files? citysoundman Post - Surround - Video 2 10-19-2002 02:23 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:14 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com