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Old 01-07-2023, 05:49 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: Signal Chain mic-preamp-interface

OK thanks for the extra information. But again there are fundamental gaps/confusion here. I can't tell if you are using a 96i IO or 192 IO here? What exactly is connected to what? Or even better you should get started with just one 192 IO. Just disconnect all other DigiLink interfaces. Connect one pair of monitors to line Output 1 &2. Use line Output 3 and line Input 3 for reamping aka H/W inserts (and use your preamps boxes as an analog preamp, but don't worry about that now, see below for what to do first with learning about H/W inserts). Keep stuff simple as possible, you should be focusing now on teaching yourself how stuff works. And the absolutely simpler you will make this the more useful help you are likely to get here.

Are you talking acoustic or electric guitars? If Electric what exact make/model guitar amp and cab (or outboard processor like a Fractal FX or Eleven Rack?) are you wanting to use to reamp that signal? While there are traditional ways of connecting electric guitar amps for reamping some newer products have additional connectivity. If you have a traditional guitar amp with only guitar level mono/instrument input you should be using a guitar reamp box. And digital processors are better off using digital interfaces. But again you need to explain *exactly* what you have.

If you meant an acoustic guitar how was it recorded (e.g. via a piezo pickup?) again .. details.

Quote:
...as it was never recorded with a preamp to begin with
"recorded with a preamp" especially for electric guitar is likely the wrong focus here, you should be thinking more "not recorded with a guitar amp and cab (or box that emulates any of that)". And your "DI" or guitar signal was almost certainly recorded though some sort of preamp as part of the DI input from the guitar into the interface. If you used a separate DI box (like say at Radial J48 or JDI) then that would normally feed into a preamp. If you used an interface with a "DI" (aka "instrument") input it was internally feeding into at least part of the preamp circuit. And while the mic and preamp can affect the sound of a guitar amp and cab when live tracking or rerecording it's the guitar amp and cab that typically by far has the most impact in the tone... and with the ADAT preamps you have you likely would not want to be using them to try to add any sonic properties. If you had some (typically much more expensive) gritty old-school preamps that might be a different thing. And likewise if it was a piezo pickup or similar in an acoustic guitar it would have been recorded though a preamp of some sort.

If reamping an electric guitar that is covered in well in some audio engineering books, but not really in the one I mentioned. There are also lots of tutorials on YouTube about reamping guitars. If you are indeed reamping an electric guitar you should find a lot of stuff by searching using "reamp" or "reamping". And yes this would normally be set up in Pro Tools as a "Hardware Insert", so you read all about that in the Pro Tools Reference Guide (make sure you are reading the correct guide for your version of Pro Tools). And you should play with the simple case of using an insert that is just a straight through TRS-TRS balanced cable fo the case of an analog insert... a 192 IO line Output to the exact same matching 192 IO line Input. Confirm you get signal though the insert and when you unplug the cable you get nothing.

Even though you have ADAT capable preamps I would start by reamping with this setup though the guitar amp/cab using a line level outputs coming from your 192 to a Reamp box (like a Radial Reamp JCR-1), that driving the guitar amp instrument input and then recording from a mic feeding into one of your preamps and taking that line out (not ADAT out) of the preamp box into the matching line-in input on the 192 IO. So just get inserts with analog line level I/O working here, ignore ADAT . And again when learning you do this as simplified as possible, one 192 IO connected to the TDM cards, no ADAT boxes connected and you are just goin to work out how to use line level H/W inserts in Pro Tools one line level output from a 192 IO going to it's matching input (the numbers *have* to match). But again what exact amp(s)/cab(s) do you have... that might change all this.

But having said all that, if you want to reamp electric guitar I'd actually start by using amp simulator plugins. You just insert them on the exiting dry audio tracks and hey presto now out of that track you get a wet guitar signal. Avid Eleven plugins were available in TDM and RTAS, I think Eleven Mk II was AAX only, but you need to check around. This is an example of how you've limited yourself by being on an old RTAS/TDM platform and don't have access to the latest AAX based guitar amp sim plugins. And if reamping/rerecording guitars is important to you there is no real need to be on TDM. Most guitarist handle the kind of latencies present in native DAW recording. Still if you describe the tone (give a song or artist?) you are after folks may have suggestions for old TDM and/or RTAS amp plugins for you. This will likely be easier to make progress doing this than physical reamping, and ofter sounds better for beginners. Yes reamping through real stuff can be great, but I'd not start there.

I don't want to harp on this but I am concerned you went down the TDM rabbit hole. HD3 and three (?) 192 IO (or by 3X did you mean one 192 IO and a 96i connected to HD3 system?) and a 96IO is the sort of system I expect to see racked in a tracking studio. Especially where folks have multiple rooms and want to keep legacy TDM/Digilink systems around. From the sounds of what you want to do it just seems a lot, and I have trouble seeing how it saves you money). And for things like MIDI drums you could be better off on a modern version of Pro Tools with more modern drum VIs available. And pro Tools just announced the end of sales of HD Native systems and HD I/O boxes. I expect this to start another slow wave of people selling off Digilink systems and eventual further collapse in price. It might not be too late to just sell what you have (including the 002?) and pivot to a modern small USB compact interface and potentially an upgraded PC. Can your existing PC run drum VIs OK? You happy with the product availability there (you might not be if you look at say Superior Drummer 3) Or are you going to use an outboard MIDI drum set? Right now you may not know what you don't know and may have not great surprises in your future as you try to finish this work.

You also want to check with whoever is going to mix your work. They may have strong opinions or at least some useful advice for you. I kinda hope it was not them pushing you to go TDM/old Pro Tools HD. If you work with somebody on a modern platform you may well end up not being able to work on those sessions on your rig, especially because of plugin incompatibilities. If the folks who are going to mix suggested you go this route they really really have some responsibility to be helping you out here. Again I expect you an much more easily do all you need with a nice simple ASIO interface, modern version of Pro Tools, and possibly spend money on upgrading your PC (which you _might_ need to do anyhow to support drum VIs etc.). I'm not sure why you could not just do all this on your 002 for example if costs were a real issue.

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vaj taghDI' qo' DarurchoH

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 01-07-2023 at 08:04 PM.
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