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Old 06-26-2013, 03:52 AM
thepresident777 thepresident777 is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Default Re: Microphone Emulators

Quote:
Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil View Post
Then you're looking in the wrong place. The Eleven Rack is not designed to do what you'd like it to do.
I agree. What I do not agree with is the justification for forced mic emulation. It's fabricated. But, avid is free to not create products for people like me regardless of the justification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil View Post
There are, I think, some real perceptual problems to be overcome in emulating the "amp in the room" experience. Key among them would be (just off the top of my head):

1) the patterns of reinforcement and cancellation that arise from things like multiple drivers (2x12, 4x12, 3x10, etc.)

2) the patterns of reinforcement and cancellation that arise from open-back cabinets

3) the patterns of radiated sound that come from resonating cabinet surfaces rather than the speakers (particularly important, I'd guess, with stacatto playing technique, high gain and closed-back cabinets)

4) the variations in perceived response from the player's moving about the room relative to the cabinet

5) the sheer volume of and amount of air moved by a pushed tube amp is pretty darned impressive; it takes a lot of power and driver surface to match that with a powered speaker.

There's more, I'm sure...

The final point may or may not apply. I get the impression that some players buy a couple of studio monitors (designed for an optimal listening level at around 85 to 90 dB) and wonder why they don't have the impact of a 50- or 100-watt tube amp driving a 4x12 (easily in the 105 dB to 115 dB range). A lot of the experience - I think - is simply the application of "brute force" to one's sensory apparatus.

As for the other four points: the physics of the speaker(s) and cabinet *probably* color our perceptions in non-obvious ways. I say *probably* because I'm not aware that anyone has studied these effects in a rigorous manner (especially on the psychoacoustic side; the physics is pretty much unimpeachable), much less attempted to model the effects (assuming that they really *do* contribute to the "amp in the room" experience).

Here's another way of looking at this: Emulating a Leslie speaker is *really* difficult. The *best* emulators *still* sound like a mic'd Leslie. There's literally nothing that can compare to standing a few feet from a well-maintained Leslie speaker while putting it through its paces. (Believe me: I used to play through a Leslie 147; I've also played darned near every Leslie emulator on the market.)

The tradeoff remains, though... The player - being in close proximity to the cabinet - gets the full effect. But everyone else - the people in the audience or the people listening to a recording of you doing your thing - hears either the far-field response patterns or the mic'd close-up version of the sound. No matter how you slice it, your audience *always* hears something different than you do.

If you really like the sound of a modeler driving a tube power amp and a guitar cab, there are ways to do it. The Eleven Rack is probably not your best vehicle for this approach.
All I asked was if it was possible to turn off the mic emulation. I never asked for near field response or anything else. Nonetheless, you make very good points here. I do not want to shut down your POV. I simply do not want to lose sight of my original post.

In the end, it's comes down to taste, or just plain desire. I have a taste for un-mic'ed amp sounds and would like to remove as many obstacles to it as possible. I understand that goal is complicated, but, I want to try. I might very well like the imperfect result.

I'm guessing that something like the Yamaha THR series is what I'm looking for, or a software solution if the latency is acceptable. The number one priority is recording a totally clean signal and being able to apply a tone to it whenever I want. But, I want an affected sound in my head phones while recording. I guess that 4 inputs should be sufficient to cover the possibilities: straight guitar signal, stereo pedal/rack signal, and one more just in case(just a fuzz box, for example).

Do you have any recommendations?

Last edited by thepresident777; 06-26-2013 at 04:23 AM.
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