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-   -   Waves mapping (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=418057)

Neale 12-03-2021 04:50 PM

Waves mapping
 
Trying to use the Waves SSL G Channel now that it's been added to my bundle. Pretty bad.
-the "ring" indicator is stuck on pan mode. That is, the indicator remains centred at 12 o'clock, no matter whether I'm using gains and frequency sweeps or actual pans, with the elements filling in left and right of that instead of filling in from, let's say, 7 o'clock all the way up to 5 o'clock
-no Q controls on the EQs (I've seen this on other Waves EQ plugins)
-when clicking on the plug-in in the mix window, when it populates the control surface, it seems as though it populates it as an "EQ" only; no dynamics section maps. When calling it from the control surface, the complete plugin maps - sans Q controls

I don't remember the ring thing before, I imagine it's something from a recent update, or maybe the G Channel is causing it. I also don't remember different mapping between calling up a plugin from the computer or from the control surface - perhaps it's a new pref I'm missing.

But beyond that - how is there no Q mapping for an EQ? I know manufacturers have a EUCON toolkit to use for mapping, but how is this something that went through beta testing, especially folks who have been around for years like Waves, and it's still an issue?

Do we address this with Avid or Waves? i.e. is it a EUCON issue that the incredible Eddie and his team can fix or does Waves have a weird toolkit for their mapping and they're getting it wrong across their platform?

BScout 12-03-2021 05:22 PM

Re: Waves mapping
 
It's a Waves issue. They have to do it.
But you can create a custom map with the latest Eucontrol

Sardi 12-03-2021 05:38 PM

Re: Waves mapping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BScout (Post 2621315)
It's a Waves issue. They have to do it.
But you can create a custom map with the latest Eucontrol


Only on S Series controllers.

Seeing as this thread is in the Artist Series section, I’ll assume the OP has an Artist Mix or similar. If so, they can’t custom map knobs. Major bummer.


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Neale 12-04-2021 09:03 AM

Re: Waves mapping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sardi (Post 2621318)
Only on S Series controllers.

Seeing as this thread is in the Artist Series section, I’ll assume the OP has an Artist Mix or similar. If so, they can’t custom map knobs. Major bummer.


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Yep, Artist Control. And I guess I missed the part in the manual where custom knobs are not available for that.

That's fine - but it's a bug to not include the Q for EQs. Beyond that, why is it now that when I click on the plugin in the mix window it brings it up (I imagine) as an EQ only (as in, EQ/DYN/etc. cycling), eliminating the ability to control the dynamics section of the channel strip, where if I call the same plugin from the control surface all controls (except Q) show up?

I really do long for the days for my Command 8 when it JUST WORKED. There wasn't the deep dive of control available on these surfaces, and considering the shape they were in when Eddie took over he's done a marvellous job - but I cannot imagine how this sort of super-basic features were not done 100% properly BEFORE moving onto the deep-dive stuff.

I will submit a ticket with Waves but I wonder, again, how this is a long-standing issue that no one on either Avid or Waves sides have looked at.

Sardi 12-04-2021 04:44 PM

Waves mapping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neale (Post 2621359)
That's fine - but it's a bug to not include the Q for EQs.

Its not a bug though. As BScout already pointed out, this is on Waves and how they decided to implement the table maps for their plugins.

I have the same beef with them with MetaFilter. The cutoff knob is on the first page of 8 knobs on my Artist Mix and the resonance knob is on the second page. So if I wanted to adjust cutoff and resonance at the same time, I can’t. I mean, who is designing these things?

All of this is fixable with custom knob mapping. Been literally waiting years for this feature and when it finally arrived, they didn’t include it for Artist series owners. Ugh…


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Neale 12-06-2021 08:37 AM

Re: Waves mapping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sardi (Post 2621397)
Its not a bug though. As BScout already pointed out, this is on Waves and how they decided to implement the table maps for their plugins.

I have the same beef with them with MetaFilter. The cutoff knob is on the first page of 8 knobs on my Artist Mix and the resonance knob is on the second page. So if I wanted to adjust cutoff and resonance at the same time, I can’t. I mean, who is designing these things?

All of this is fixable with custom knob mapping. Been literally waiting years for this feature and when it finally arrived, they didn’t include it for Artist series owners. Ugh…


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Maybe. But “inconveniently placed” is different than “not including it at all”. As such, who would say their EQ plug-in is compatible with EUCON if there is no Q control? Unless you’re only using API plugins or other proportional EQs, I would suggest that leaving this control out is as “bug”gy as not including frequency control or gain; it forces the user to have to use something other than the EUCONized surface.

Regardless, if this is indeed a Waves mapping issue, I will update my post here once I’ve heard back from them.

Neale 12-07-2021 08:21 AM

Re: Waves mapping
 
Here is Waves’ reply:

“Please press the Select button on the LMF or the HMF and this should change the knob to Q.”

Issue is - where is this “Select” on an Artist Control?
-pushing/clicking the encoder typically resets to default
-tapping the touchscreen ring indicator typically bypasses the selection
-of course there is the “Select” for tracks but I’m going to imagine there is no way to assign that to a plug-in parameter

Also to note for Eddie - those ring indicators have gotten messed up somewhere along the line. Not only are they displaying as a “0 at 12 o’clock” as would be useful for panning even if it’s, say, a freq suite parameter, but in yesterdays mix session using the Waves SSL G Channel, the threshold parameter for the compressor disappeared entirely, no indicator, just the greyed-out “E” circular EUCON logo… but the knob still adjusted the parameter, it was just not getting the feedback or listing what parameter at all. This is an infrequent thing on my system, MacOS 10.15.7, latest PT Native and EUCON.

EddieJones 12-07-2021 08:45 AM

Re: Waves mapping
 
From the user guide;

Each knob has the following controls:
• Touching the knob’s image on the Touchscreen toggles the state of its primary parameter, such as EQ Band 1 on or off. When
on, a small green LED lights on the lower left.
Pressing the SHIFT key and touching the knob’s image on the Touchscreen toggles its secondary parameter (if it exists), such
as toggling an aux send between pre- and post-fader. This can also change the knob function between two or more parameters, such as EQ Frequency and Q. When active, a small yellow LED lights on the upper left.

The plugin map selects the type of ring used for a knob so its probably the map that's causing that issue especially if they work OK for pan etc.

Neale 12-07-2021 08:57 AM

Re: Waves mapping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EddieJones (Post 2621649)
From the user guide;

Each knob has the following controls:
• Touching the knob’s image on the Touchscreen toggles the state of its primary parameter, such as EQ Band 1 on or off. When
on, a small green LED lights on the lower left.
Pressing the SHIFT key and touching the knob’s image on the Touchscreen toggles its secondary parameter (if it exists), such
as toggling an aux send between pre- and post-fader. This can also change the knob function between two or more parameters, such as EQ Frequency and Q. When active, a small yellow LED lights on the upper left.

The plugin map selects the type of ring used for a knob so its probably the map that's causing that issue especially if they work OK for pan etc.

Awesome. I don’t typically switch between pre and post fader aux and had forgotten about that. Thanks.

As for intermittent ring indicator - anything I can do to troubleshoot on my end EUCON-wise or is it something to follow up with Waves on? I know when I originally called up the plug-in the parameter was displayed, and I think paging back and forth from the control surface caused JUST that parameter’s ring to go away - all others weee as they should be.

BScout 12-07-2021 09:03 AM

Re: Waves mapping
 
All the artist and current series have SEL keys at the top of their faders (and on the Dock, next to the top 8 knobs.) That's what Waves is referring to. When you spill plugin parameters across the top of the fader strips, you use those.

It appears from the Avid Artist Control manual, you hold the shift key and touch the knob image to do the same for the Touchscreen area.

Quote:

Knob Functions

Each knob has the following controls:
• Touching the knob’s image on the Touchscreen toggles the state of its primary parameter, such as EQ Band 1 on or off. When
on, a small green LED lights on the lower left.

• Pressing the SHIFT key and touching the knob’s image on the Touchscreen toggles its secondary parameter (if it exists), such
as toggling an aux send between pre- and post-fader. This can also change the knob function between two or more parameters, such as EQ Frequency and Q. When active, a small yellow LED lights on the upper left.

Bolded in Red what points this out since this has been the mapping for Q (and the SEL button) for a long time. This is the shift key on the Artist Control.


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