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-   -   Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=419238)

kings79 03-12-2022 04:51 PM

Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
I though I'd start this thread because I think there will be ALOT of us in the same situation.

What bit's do I need with my system?
  • HDX or Native
  • Interfaces
  • PCIe
  • Video Hardware
  • Drive Enclosures
  • Docks
  • Adapters

What bits are you getting, or are thinking about and why? Do you have a better product or can you see an issue with something one of us has posted?


------------------------------------
I'd prefer if we didn't debate on what is not and what is going to work and just assume that companies don't want to loosed all their Apple using clients and make their products work.

*Also I couldn't work out the best place to post this so any mod's can move this topic to the correct location if it's in the wrong spot.

kings79 03-12-2022 05:35 PM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
Ok so naturally I'll start. I've ordered the Studio with the M1 Max 10 Core, 64BG RAM, 1TB SSD.

As you can see from my signature I'm moving from a 5,1 with a maxed out PCIe machine. For work, I mix TV for all the streamers, networks here in Australia and also ESPN on ABC America. I also have a full music studio with drum machines & racks of hardware normaled through multiple patchbays to a Midas F32. Tracking and Mixing in Tools obvs

I need for Mixing TV;
  1. PCIe Enclosure for Video Hardware and M.2/NVME drive/s - Thinking the Sonnet Echo IIId or the Magma ExpressBox 3T-V3
  2. Enclosure for my 3.5" & 2.5" HDD's - Thinking the OWC Thunderbay 4
  3. 2x TB3 to HDMI adapters (I run 3 monitor plus the Video hardware monitor)
  4. Pretty sure I DON'T need a dock as the Apple Studio has plenty of options.

I need for music multi tracking:
  1. 32 I & O. Thinking the Presonus Quantum 4848
  2. More DB25 to TRS - Thinking - Planet Waves Modular Snake TRS Breakout
  3. Apple's new 3m TB3 cable or the Corning cables (optical cables)
  4. Another Patchbay - Which I've bought already.
  5. 2 more 16 by 16 looms - Which I've bought already

This music stuff can wait. I need the mixing stuff first.

So what do you all think? Discuss.

moogboy100 03-12-2022 08:52 PM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
I'm curious to see what Sonnet will come up with as a rack mount solution for the Mac Studio. Aside from that I'm just gonna need a handful of TB2 to TB3 adapters so it will plug-n-play into all my existing gear, replacing my trashcan Mac Pro.

audiolex1 03-13-2022 12:34 AM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kings79 (Post 2629825)
Ok so naturally I'll start. I've ordered the Studio with the M1 Max 10 Core, 64BG RAM, 1TB SSD.

As you can see from my signature I'm moving from a 5,1 with a maxed out PCIe machine. For work, I mix TV for all the streamers, networks here in Australia and also ESPN on ABC America. I also have a full music studio with drum machines & racks of hardware normaled through multiple patchbays to a Midas F32. Tracking and Mixing in Tools obvs

I need for Mixing TV;
  1. PCIe Enclosure for Video Hardware and M.2/NVME drive/s - Thinking the Sonnet Echo IIId or the Magma ExpressBox 3T-V3
  2. Enclosure for my 3.5" & 2.5" HDD's - Thinking the OWC Thunderbay 4
  3. 2x TB3 to HDMI adapters (I run 3 monitor plus the Video hardware monitor)
  4. Pretty sure I DON'T need a dock as the Apple Studio has plenty of options.

I need for music multi tracking:
  1. 32 I & O. Thinking the Presonus Quantum 4848
  2. More DB25 to TRS - Thinking - Planet Waves Modular Snake TRS Breakout
  3. Apple's new 3m TB3 cable or the Corning cables (optical cables)
  4. Another Patchbay - Which I've bought already.
  5. 2 more 16 by 16 looms - Which I've bought already

This music stuff can wait. I need the mixing stuff first.

So what do you all think? Discuss.

Personally, I am going to wait it out for the Mac Pro. I think in a mobile situation 10 core kills.
But, my feeling with the thought of future and Silicon Native, 10 core is going to be the bare minimum.

I don't want to get stuck in the "damn, its too slow for what I want to do". I don't know how plugins might change or benefit with more power. Honestly, I am hoping they all start adapting over sampling by 4x at least.
And if the power the there hopefully an over sampling switch or preference.

Before going Magma, check this out:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...underbolt.html

Ironically I have the same one, but with a PCIe card for my 5,1. Just worked.

It is the same box. Like Costco here in the US, you can buy 1.5 liters of Grey goose Vodka for 50 bucks, or Kirkland Vodka for 17.99. Which is just Grey Goose in a different bottle.

You mentioned HDX. Another reason to think more cores. I think at the 20 core point you could run at the lowest latency without issue. Of course that is just suspect.

Honestly, I'm looking more and more into Dante. The amount of products that work with Dante is endless. And routing is amazing and you are getting the lowest latency period.

AVID had a Dante box for 16k. The only one that is over 10k from the rest of the pact.

AS far as Displays, I don't know what you have. I run 3 monitors myself. Going start using Duet for a 4th mini monitor.
There are TB hubs with dual display ports. Maybe consider DP to HDMI rather than burn up 2 TB ports?

Music side.
I think this might come with a Dante integration. Again, there are so many options.

Apples 3M TB cable which is just about 10 feet. For me, it would barely make it. I have an Apollo still on FW, so I'd have to go corning. Except they don't make shorter then like 30 feet.
And it 500 dollars.

Also, look into Behringer. I know, but they have Dante as well. I don't think Presonus does though.

AS far as docks go. I don't know your studio, but I have lots of drives and need to plug them in, or network them. Piano is USB, guitar switcher is usb, Camera is USB, etc, etc.
USB hubs. Big ones. iLok, Waves, etc. I have a bare drive mounter as well. Backups, restores.
I have drives for backups, work drives, dailies, transfer drives, SFX drives, music drives.

unplugging and replugging is a pain. Some hubs allow you to turn off the USB port.

Since you are on a MAC, and I can't confirm but read that you can make an aggregate device and combine multiple interfaces. So you might look into some MOTU stuff for doing a digital patch bay.

Flock has an amazing digital patch bay, but it is pricey.

Lastly, the drive enclosure. Get off mechanical drives. I did it last fall and SSD it was a game changer.
The speed alone saved me hours of time.
FYI, a RAID 5 will eat 1/4 of your drive space. 16 gigs becomes 12.

I've built my own SSD drives. The cases aren't available that I used but OWC now has these:
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEPMTCKIT/

I got 1 TB Samsung 870s. I got 4 of them. I also bought 4 seagate 2tb drives for misc BU and dailies.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

But I run my shows off the SSDs.

AS well, for doing backups I have multiples of this:
https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Newe...ard_Drive_Dock

I use Western Digital 4TB blue drives to backup to. Considering they are used so infrequently, restores or rewrites aren't really an issue.
I've considered moving to 2.5 versions of these as well for smaller storage space.

Check this out. 4 Channels analog over ethernet. Analog the whole way.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076QK6TWH...v_ov_lig_dp_it

80 bucks for 4 channels. 320 for 16. 4 ethernet cables. I know those looms are pricey.

The only thing that concerns me with the Planet Wave is the potential tension on the cable. Its thin.

Just my thoughts

protoolsuserman 03-13-2022 01:42 AM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by audiolex1 (Post 2629839)
Personally, I am going to wait it out for the Mac Pro. I think in a mobile situation 10 core kills.

But, my feeling with the thought of future and Silicon Native, 10 core is going to be the bare minimum.



I don't want to get stuck in the "damn, its too slow for what I want to do". I don't know how plugins might change or benefit with more power. Honestly, I am hoping they all start adapting over sampling by 4x at least.

And if the power the there hopefully an over sampling switch or preference.



Before going Magma, check this out:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...underbolt.html



Ironically I have the same one, but with a PCIe card for my 5,1. Just worked.



It is the same box. Like Costco here in the US, you can buy 1.5 liters of Grey goose Vodka for 50 bucks, or Kirkland Vodka for 17.99. Which is just Grey Goose in a different bottle.



You mentioned HDX. Another reason to think more cores. I think at the 20 core point you could run at the lowest latency without issue. Of course that is just suspect.



Honestly, I'm looking more and more into Dante. The amount of products that work with Dante is endless. And routing is amazing and you are getting the lowest latency period.



AVID had a Dante box for 16k. The only one that is over 10k from the rest of the pact.



AS far as Displays, I don't know what you have. I run 3 monitors myself. Going start using Duet for a 4th mini monitor.

There are TB hubs with dual display ports. Maybe consider DP to HDMI rather than burn up 2 TB ports?



Music side.

I think this might come with a Dante integration. Again, there are so many options.



Apples 3M TB cable which is just about 10 feet. For me, it would barely make it. I have an Apollo still on FW, so I'd have to go corning. Except they don't make shorter then like 30 feet.

And it 500 dollars.



Also, look into Behringer. I know, but they have Dante as well. I don't think Presonus does though.



AS far as docks go. I don't know your studio, but I have lots of drives and need to plug them in, or network them. Piano is USB, guitar switcher is usb, Camera is USB, etc, etc.

USB hubs. Big ones. iLok, Waves, etc. I have a bare drive mounter as well. Backups, restores.

I have drives for backups, work drives, dailies, transfer drives, SFX drives, music drives.



unplugging and replugging is a pain. Some hubs allow you to turn off the USB port.



Since you are on a MAC, and I can't confirm but read that you can make an aggregate device and combine multiple interfaces. So you might look into some MOTU stuff for doing a digital patch bay.



Flock has an amazing digital patch bay, but it is pricey.



Lastly, the drive enclosure. Get off mechanical drives. I did it last fall and SSD it was a game changer.

The speed alone saved me hours of time.

FYI, a RAID 5 will eat 1/4 of your drive space. 16 gigs becomes 12.



I've built my own SSD drives. The cases aren't available that I used but OWC now has these:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEPMTCKIT/



I got 1 TB Samsung 870s. I got 4 of them. I also bought 4 seagate 2tb drives for misc BU and dailies.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



But I run my shows off the SSDs.



AS well, for doing backups I have multiples of this:

https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Newe...ard_Drive_Dock



I use Western Digital 4TB blue drives to backup to. Considering they are used so infrequently, restores or rewrites aren't really an issue.

I've considered moving to 2.5 versions of these as well for smaller storage space.



Check this out. 4 Channels analog over ethernet. Analog the whole way.



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076QK6TWH...v_ov_lig_dp_it



80 bucks for 4 channels. 320 for 16. 4 ethernet cables. I know those looms are pricey.



The only thing that concerns me with the Planet Wave is the potential tension on the cable. Its thin.



Just my thoughts

I agree with you Audiolex1

The Mac studio looks immense but the next MacPro is going to be a super beast capable of unbelievable things, plus I'd like to think we'll be able to upgrade the ram and SSD in that unit too [emoji1695]

The Mac studio looks great but if a single chip dies on that logic board, you are stuffed just like with the laptops, nothing is removable or upgradable so can see there being issues further down the line.

Dante is a fabulous protocol, there are plenty of studios using a combination of Dante and avid I/O together which is brilliant!

I think the AVB protocol is also going to be. A game changer. Can't wait to see what else comes our way in that regard.

l

thin ice 03-13-2022 03:29 AM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by protoolsuserman (Post 2629841)
I agree with you Audiolex1
The Mac studio looks great but if a single chip dies on that logic board, you are stuffed just like with the laptops, nothing is removable or upgradable so can see there being issues further down the line.
l

This is a good point. Not being able to change a drive or replace any parts is a concern.

Buying a Mac Mini M1 for £700 makes it understandable, but when you are spending between £2,000-£8,000 you expect a bit more security and a chance to upgrade memory when needed.

protoolsuserman 03-13-2022 03:55 AM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
I didn't know it went up to £8k?

I heard figures around £4k but even then I thought that was a little extreme for an aluminium chassis, some copper heat pipes, fans and a logic board with chips soldered to it [emoji29]

That said it could be very well engineered to counteract these issues. I just don't see it as a professional machine as such.

The Mac pro is the machine I'm gonna wait out for I think because you can upgrade it, it's future proofed and it won't overheat plus it should fit the hdx cards in it, no issue.

l

thin ice 03-13-2022 04:56 AM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by protoolsuserman (Post 2629846)
I didn't know it went up to £8k?

I heard figures around £4k but even then I thought that was a little extreme for an aluminium chassis, some copper heat pipes, fans and a logic board with chips soldered to it [emoji29]

l

If you select the upper model and max all options it comes out at 7,999. Sadly that is a lot more in pounds than dollars of course.

Obsidian Dragon 03-13-2022 06:59 AM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by protoolsuserman (Post 2629841)
plus I'd like to think we'll be able to upgrade the ram and SSD in that unit too

Trying not to get too off topic here but:

I'm not a processor engineer or anything like that, but I don't know if unified RAM can be separate from the SOC design. To achieve the speed and access from both the CPU cores and GPU cores, it uses a super fast bus on the SOC package. Apple seems to like to control their hardware components as demonstrated by soldering in the RAM and SSD's on the previous Intel-based system (not all but most). I hope I'm wrong and RAM and SSD's can be user upgraded on the upcoming Apple Silicon Mac Pro.

Bob Olhsson 03-13-2022 09:48 AM

Re: Apple Studio/Mini - What bits we need
 
I think apples are being compared to oranges in discussions about CPU speed, cores, memory, and storage compared to Intel. These are just different, and it is going to require some real-world experience to sort out the advantages and where the points of diminishing returns lie for doing real time audio work.


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