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-   -   Eleven Rack GUI in PT11 (http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=348282)

SeattleHD 12-14-2013 03:57 PM

Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
My first post ever, so forgive me if this is a worn out topic, or expired, or already amply posted elsewhere -- I looked around and couldn't find it, so:

Does anyone have any inside info on whether Avid will be updating to enable Eleven Rack's GUI to work in PT11 as it does in PT10? The only answers I seem to see are along the lines of "not at this time." Should I figure on it EVER happening? And if yes, someday, is it likely to be within a week, month, year, decade, or ?? I fully get that customers get irritated when their expectations aren't met (thus the invention of "under-promise, over-deliver") -- but customers also get irritated if they've invested money in gear and then get zero information on whether there's any hope for it to continue working forward. Does Avid have a "making customers feel happy" department? :cool:

Can anyone give a wink or a nod toward any info on this? Thanks.

Darryl Ramm 12-14-2013 04:45 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Avid simply does not pre-announce things. So the chance of anybody in the know responding to your question is very slim/next to nothing. Those that do know won't say, and those that might say would likely just be speculating.

SeattleHD 12-15-2013 12:46 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Thank you Darryl. I'll keep the faith [that they will create a 64bit gui for 11r] and motor on.

MadisonV44 12-16-2013 08:46 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleHD (Post 2111594)
but customers also get irritated if they've invested money in gear and then get zero information on whether there's any hope for it to continue working forward.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2111604)
Avid simply does not pre-announce things

Totaly agree, it's a question of strategy vs concurrence and this is completely understandable in case of major release.

But ... in this particular case we are not speaking about plans, we are just speaking about an issue (software regression between version 10 and 11).
Everybody going on the Avid's Eleven Rack page putting himself in a new client shoes will notice that the edition interface is everywhere from the screenshots to videos.

Personaly I decided to migrate to 11R because I naively thought it was better from an integration point of view with the next 64 bit gen of PT11.
Today's result: i'm stuck in the Avid's glue without edition interface for PT, without any explanation.

By the way, even if I do love how this unit sounds, the lack of communication on Eleven Rack (globally none since dec 2012) becomes a big concern for 11R community.

SeattleHD 12-17-2013 05:09 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
I agree. Even though avid never pre-announces, it still makes business sense for them to attempt some level of "relationship" with loyal customers. Does anyone know if there is a particular section of the duc where avid reads and considers posts? I could go post the topic there. What strikes me as weird is, all they'd have to say to keep guys like me in their pocket is, "we are excited about bringing the 11r GUI to HD11, and are actively working on it. We anticipate releasing it within the next three years". Instead we get treated like we have no value. It would even be reasonable if they said "the 11r will continue to work, but we won't be making an hd11 GUI ever." At least then we' d know.

Sam C 12-18-2013 06:28 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
I thought it was mentioned in a post at one point a few months ago that Avid planned to get the Eleven Rack GUI working in PT 11. Seems like the poster mentioned first would come the ability to load set ups from the computer and soon after a fully functional GUI.

Was I dreaming?

Benoni 12-19-2013 02:36 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
For now you need to stick with Pro Tools 10 if you want to use the on-screen editor.

Avid has said in the past that they are aware of the issue with Pro Tools 11.

From what I have heard the Eleven Rack team would like to find a solution. Other than that, Avid will not say anything publicly.

kelco83 12-19-2013 07:28 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
You know, if they can't get it to work because of some unforeseen thing, I can understand that. Would be a great reason to revise the 11 rack and release an updated unit.

Becharax 12-20-2013 01:15 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
I remember reading that Pro Tools 11.0.3 Did fix this issue .... you can read it in the released notes .... what went wrong ?

Sam C 12-20-2013 06:42 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Bechara (Post 2113308)
I remember reading that Pro Tools 11.0.3 Did fix this issue .... you can read it in the released notes .... what went wrong ?

11.03 allows you to load from computer. This was new but is not what everyone wants.

Why in the world would they not be better prepared for this?

Darryl Ramm 12-20-2013 07:33 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Ah because the Eleven Rack team was cast to the wind and are not at Avid any more. Avid has lost a lot of staff and been and are still going through serious financial problems. It is pretty amazing they have shipped HD Native, HDX, developed AAX, shipped PT 10 and 11 and been able to do as much there as they have and support Pro Tools as well as they have. The Eleven Rack is a neat, low cost product, I would not spend any time stressing over much ever happening to it in future, if the GUI eventually gets supported like Avid promised in AAX-64/PT 11 then great. If you want a guitar processor with great vendor support and frequent updates and ability to interact with the vendor/developers then there are clearly better choices out there like the Axe-FX II.

Sam C 12-20-2013 11:17 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2113388)
I would not spend any time stressing over much ever happening to it in future, if the GUI eventually gets supported like Avid promised in AAX-64/PT 11 then great. If you want a guitar processor with great vendor support and frequent updates and ability to interact with the vendor/developers then there are clearly better choices out there like the Axe-FX II.

Hear that all of you Eleven Rack owners!

Think of the hassle saved, if the thousands of us would have read this first. Damn.

Darryl Ramm 12-20-2013 11:33 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam C (Post 2113476)
Hear that all of you Eleven Rack owners!

Think of the hassle saved, if the thousands of us would have read this first. Damn.

Well you seemed to be confused why not a lot is happening, when the development and product team has long since left the building. Avid can being in a contract or similar developer and given enough time they can port the RTAS GUI over to AAX-64 which is what I suspect is happening (e.g. somebody in India grinding their way through porting the GUI). I own an Eleven Rack and would buy another one, they are bargain basement priced but very good, but as far as I'm concerned its a pretty dead product. Buy it for what it offers today, anything else will be a nice surprise.

musicman691 12-20-2013 01:21 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Benoni (Post 2113196)
For now you need to stick with Pro Tools 10 if you want to use the on-screen editor.

Avid has said in the past that they are aware of the issue with Pro Tools 11.

From what I have heard the Eleven Rack team would like to find a solution. Other than that, Avid will not say anything publicly.

Is there even an 11R team at Avid anymore? First Sean left and I think The Chimp is gone as well.

kelco83 12-20-2013 01:22 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
I agree, it's a good product and eventually it would be discontinued anyway.

MadisonV44 12-20-2013 01:24 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2113479)
Well you seemed to be confused why not a lot is happening, when the development and product team has long since left the building. Avid can being in a contract or similar developer and given enough time they can port the RTAS GUI over to AAX-64 which is what I suspect is happening (e.g. somebody in India grinding their way through porting the GUI). I own an Eleven Rack and would buy another one, they are bargain basement priced but very good, but as far as I'm concerned its a pretty dead product. Buy it for what it offers today, anything else will be a nice surprise.

+1

When buying a software company like Digidisign, if you don't respect shareholders, employees, developpers and by the way .. clients :D, you finally purchase an empty shell ... even if you company is named Avid.

Sam C 12-20-2013 01:31 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2113479)
Well you seemed to be confused why not a lot is happening, when the development and product team has long since left the building. Avid can being in a contract or similar developer and given enough time they can port the RTAS GUI over to AAX-64 which is what I suspect is happening (e.g. somebody in India grinding their way through porting the GUI). I own an Eleven Rack and would buy another one, they are bargain basement priced but very good, but as far as I'm concerned its a pretty dead product. Buy it for what it offers today, anything else will be a nice surprise.

People that purchased this in the last few years have every right to expect something in return. Of course, you don't always get treated like you want.

I'm not even slightly confused. But I will be disappointed if Avid can't manage something as simple as a GUI interface.

Darryl Ramm 12-20-2013 02:50 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman691 (Post 2113518)
Is there even an 11R team at Avid anymore? First Sean left and I think The Chimp is gone as well.

I think Sean Halley was only peripherally involved with the Eleven Rack, he did those great promo videos but also described how they were done very spur of the moment.

The core architect of the Eleven plugin and Eleven Rack was Chris Townsend, and he left Avid a long time ago and set himself us a consultant. Ideally he would be consulting to Avid...

The Eleven Rack product manager was Hiro Shimozato, he left in sale of parts of Avid to InMusic and has apparently moved on from there.

The Chimp was around here talking about the product not being dead, but he's been very quiet since, not sure if he is still at Avid or not.

And now its been years since the expansion pack and no architect/lead developer and no product manager. That's pretty much my definition of a dead product--but hey I'd love to be wrong. Avid can keep selling them for as long as they can (and with the Pro Tools bundle it is a great deal) but without a clear commitment to ongoing development I would assume the Eleven Rack just does not have a long term future.

kelco83 12-20-2013 03:00 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
I think it's a screwed mentality on the user base. The product is as advertised and it was never guaranteed to do anything more as far as expansions or support. Any competent user can research their own information and decide if the daw included is up to snuff with what they need.

Sam C 12-20-2013 03:59 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kelco83 (Post 2113556)
I think it's a screwed mentality on the user base. The product is as advertised and it was never guaranteed to do anything more as far as expansions or support. Any competent user can research their own information and decide if the daw included is up to snuff with what they need.

It never stated, "beware, when we upgrade PT we might exclude the GUI."
I think that might be more "screwed" then the user base wanting the GUI to continue right along with PT.

TheChimp 12-20-2013 06:22 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
The Chimp is still at Avid! I don't get to the DUC much these days, but I just wanted to say hi to you guys. Good to see the community is still thriving!

Sorry we had to drop the control window in PT 11...please know that WE know that the #1 idea for Eleven Rack on Ideascale is a standalone editor for Mac and Windows...and there are still people at Avid who care about Eleven Rack.

Enjoy NAMM, if you happen to go!

-Chimp

kelco83 12-20-2013 06:28 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
I'm glad I waited on purchasing 11, 10 is fine, but no gui is a reason to not upgrade in my situation.

It would be cool to have pt 11 features, but the eleven rack's full functionality is more valuable to me as a recording guitarist than 64 bit or offline bounce is.

I'm sure other studio techs don't care about the rack and absolutely love offline bounce.

nst7 12-20-2013 08:09 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChimp (Post 2113597)
The Chimp is still at Avid! I don't get to the DUC much these days, but I just wanted to say hi to you guys. Good to see the community is still thriving!

Sorry we had to drop the control window in PT 11...please know that WE know that the #1 idea for Eleven Rack on Ideascale is a standalone editor for Mac and Windows...and there are still people at Avid who care about Eleven Rack.

Enjoy NAMM, if you happen to go!

-Chimp

Nice of you to drop by! The fact that you mentioned NAMM...Is that a subtle hint that there might be something new or updated in the world of guitar products?

musicman691 12-21-2013 03:34 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChimp (Post 2113597)
The Chimp is still at Avid! I don't get to the DUC much these days, but I just wanted to say hi to you guys. Good to see the community is still thriving!

Sorry we had to drop the control window in PT 11...please know that WE know that the #1 idea for Eleven Rack on Ideascale is a standalone editor for Mac and Windows...and there are still people at Avid who care about Eleven Rack.

Enjoy NAMM, if you happen to go!

-Chimp

Thanks for dropping by. Going from what you say here about dropping the control window in PT11 - does that mean it will never come back in PT11? And further - why DID the control window have to be dropped? Not being sarcastic - inquiring minds want to know.

Have a safe Holidays!

Righty27 12-21-2013 11:28 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman691 (Post 2113697)
Thanks for dropping by. Going from what you say here about dropping the control window in PT11 - does that mean it will never come back in PT11? And further - why DID the control window have to be dropped? Not being sarcastic - inquiring minds want to know.

Have a safe Holidays!

If I recall correctly, we only found out that this had been dropped when PT11 was released, but wasn't there a promise at the time that it would be brought back later (probably in a 'dot release' version)? Surely, this would have enticed 11R users to PT11? Hopefully, The Chimp is hinting at a late Christmas present at NAMM! :)

guitardom 12-21-2013 12:14 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Righty27 (Post 2113800)
If I recall correctly, we only found out that this had been dropped when PT11 was released, but wasn't there a promise at the time that it would be brought back later (probably in a 'dot release' version)? Surely, this would have enticed 11R users to PT11? Hopefully, The Chimp is hinting at a late Christmas present at NAMM! :)

We were told well before 11 released that the control window would not be present in 11 till a later update.

Righty27 12-21-2013 12:24 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by guitardom (Post 2113813)
We were told well before 11 released that the control window would not be present in 11 till a later update.

Thanks guitardom - that's what I thought i.e. Avid stated that it would come. So they must have determined that it was do-able (not just from a technical standpoint) and took a business decision to develop it.

musicman691 12-22-2013 04:28 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by guitardom (Post 2113813)
We were told well before 11 released that the control window would not be present in 11 till a later update.

I know that but I'm wondering if things have changed in the meantime and Avid's software geeks found something out that it can't be done? I'm saying that in light of what The Chimp wrote here. He said that they were sorry they had to drop the control window and were cognizant of the fact a standalone editor was the #1 thing on Ideascale. It doesn't take a psychic reading the tea leaves to take that as the control window won't be showing up in PT11 and that if anything there will be a standalone editor for the 11R instead.

Darryl Ramm 12-22-2013 09:28 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by musicman691 (Post 2113984)
I know that but I'm wondering if things have changed in the meantime and Avid's software geeks found something out that it can't be done? I'm saying that in light of what The Chimp wrote here. He said that they were sorry they had to drop the control window and were cognizant of the fact a standalone editor was the #1 thing on Ideascale. It doesn't take a psychic reading the tea leaves to take that as the control window won't be showing up in PT11 and that if anything there will be a standalone editor for the 11R instead.


"Can't be done" would be hard to fathom, if just staying with support within Pro Tools only then there is not much "there there" in the Eleven Rack GUI. It is just some very simple in concept plugins talking midi control over USB to the Eleven Rack box. And the Basic GUI stuff for AAX is clearly well shaken out. But there are lots of little bits to do and if it was being done by say a contractor new to this then it might well take time.

I would be careful reading tea leaves from primates, but OTOH if Avid bit the bullet and decided to do a full stand alone editor then they have the choice of writing that in AAX and shipping with a stand-alone AAX runtime (maybe using bits they already have from the SDK?) or rewriting a GUI completely outside of AAX or maybe using just bits of the AAX GUI code--to help with cross platform portability. It could well take time to shake that extra stuff out and get it shippable. And if you do a stand alone editor do you also do an editor that will run inside Pro Tools to cleanly handle things like track embedding. Maybe that leads you to want to do an AAX-64 port that can run as a plugin or stand-alone in a separate AAX runtime or need hooks in Pro Tools or a plugin in Pro Tools to handle that communication with a stand alone GUI.

Ah idle speculation.... personally I am beyond really worrying, the Eleven Rack works great for what I need and I barely use the GUI. If something happens there then I will be pleasantly surprised.

kelco83 12-22-2013 09:34 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Standalone editor probably won't let me embed rigs into the tracks right? Not completely ideal.

musicman691 12-22-2013 09:43 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2114040)
"Can't be done" would be hard to fathom, if just staying with support within Pro Tools only then there is not much "there there" in the Eleven Rack GUI. It is just some very simple in concept plugins talking midi control over USB to the Eleven Rack box. And the Basic GUI stuff for AAX is clearly well shaken out. But there are lots of little bits to do and if it was being done by say a contractor new to this then it might well take time.

I would be careful reading tea leaves from primates, but OTOH if Avid bit the bullet and decided to do a full stand alone editor then they have the choice of writing that in AAX and shipping with a stand-alone AAX runtime (maybe using bits they already have from the SDK?) or rewriting a GUI completely outside of AAX or maybe using just bits of the AAX GUI code--to help with cross platform portability. It could well take time to shake that extra stuff out and get it shippable. And if you do a stand alone editor do you also do an editor that will run inside Pro Tools to cleanly handle things like track embedding. Maybe that leads you to want to do an AAX-64 port that can run as a plugin or stand-alone in a separate AAX runtime or need hooks in Pro Tools or a plugin in Pro Tools to handle that communication with a stand alone GUI.

Ah idle speculation.... personally I am beyond really worrying, the Eleven Rack works great for what I need and I barely use the GUI. If something happens there then I will be pleasantly surprised.

The track embedding can already be done in PT 11 so that's not the worry.

As far as reading the tea leaves from The Chimp I don't think what he said was a throwaway. After all he's closer to the situation then any of us. If he had meant "sorry we had to drop the 11R control window in PT11 for now" that would be different.

Trying to create or even edit patches on the front panel of the 11R is like editing patches from the single line display on a Yamaha DX7. Been there, done that and it ain't the easiest thing to do. Wish I never got rid of that beast :(

Benoni 12-22-2013 11:21 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kelco83 (Post 2114042)
Standalone editor probably won't let me embed rigs into the tracks right? Not completely ideal.

You can already embed rigs into a track in Pro Tools 11.

Since the editor is not available in PT11, you now choose what track to embed to from the IO.

Darryl Ramm 12-22-2013 11:27 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Benoni (Post 2114094)
You can already embed rigs into a track in Pro Tools 11.



Since the editor is not available in PT11, you now choose what track to embed to from the IO.


Yes and that leaves the question of how transparently you could open or modify those in a stand alone editor.

Give the teapot another stir, I think there are more tea leaves in there...

musicman691 12-22-2013 01:34 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2114095)
Yes and that leaves the question of how transparently you could open or modify those in a stand alone editor.

Give the teapot another stir, I think there are more tea leaves in there...

Yeah - I can see problems with a truly standalone editor giving or having problems with rig embedding. If a rig was changed in standalone would PT throw up an error message that the embedded rig cannot be found? This brings up the possibility of either losing embedding or Avid actually doing two separate programs - a standalone for everyone who doesn't want to run PT and one for those of us who do and depend on embedded rigs that's wholly integrated with PT.

Brewing a fresh pot of tea;)

gtrm8kr 12-23-2013 09:41 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Well, this is disappointing. I had high hopes for 11.1 and 11R.

"Pro Tools 11 does not provide the Guitar Window for Eleven Rack that is available in lower versions of Pro Tools."

YYR123 12-23-2013 11:34 AM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kelco83 (Post 2114042)
Standalone editor probably won't let me embed rigs into the tracks right? Not completely ideal.

yeah I want standalone editor and 11rack window !!!! Pretty pls!!!

All I want for Xmas is my 2 eleven rack windows :)

musicman691 12-23-2013 04:47 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YYR123 (Post 2114436)
yeah I want standalone editor and 11rack window !!!! Pretty pls!!!

All I want for Xmas is my 2 eleven rack windows :)

Well the vaunted PT 11.1 is here and still no 11 Rack gui - phooey.

Darryl Ramm 12-23-2013 05:14 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Well looking at my latest coffee grinds says that's even more likely now to mean it's a STAND ALONE EDITOR. Wow I'm so excited..... :-)

YYR123 12-23-2013 06:34 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
It's not just the stand alone editor - it's also the eleven rack window inside PT for rack embedding and so on....

It really increases it's viability as a product to have both

Darryl Ramm 12-23-2013 07:27 PM

Re: Eleven Rack GUI in PT11
 
Oh you want both, better brew your own pot of tea...


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