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badperson 04-18-2005 10:12 AM

Re: Here\'s a new one
Yeah Doc,

I thought this sounded really good. You're right, I think that is the best drum work I've heard from your place, and the guitars sound very good.

I have a similar issue with the bass; did you go direct? It's not that the sound is bad to me, or even too much, it's just there isn't a lot of definition, the bass seems to cover all of the spectrum. Curious how you got the sound.


IntelDoc 04-18-2005 10:51 AM

Re: Here\'s a new one
Hey man, thanks for taking a listen first off. The bass was played through some Carvin 5 string. The player is actually the guitarist and kinda "winged" it in a sense. I ran that track direct through the 1985 Demeter Vtmp-2a Tube pre into the 1176 and then to the Rosetta 800. Slapped the Fairchild on it to give a little bit more thickness and mixed to taste. I know that it is pumped a tad too much and will lower it about 2db. The guitarist likes it though, so we shall see. He was really going for a low, flat fretless sound to be honest. Did not want alot of presence, more filler.

The drums I am very happy with. Still going to tweek them a bit and really mastered it quickly. The cymbals need to shine a tad more. Kinda brittle in parts, and I will automate the Tom hits. All the EQ's are the URS Neve ones minus a few Waves stuff that I put on the Guitars. The compressors are RComp and the 660. RComp is my go to Compressor for sure.

Reverb is a mixture of TrueVerb with a setting I made, The Lexicon PCM-90 (outboard)
Delays are the Waves 2 tap, and the Eventide H-3000D/SE. Very, Very low in the mix, but heard on headphones.

4 mics on the acoustic, and made them double it. Compressed one going in, and ran the others clean.

All converted with the Apogee Rosetta 800. Recorded at 48/24

- Doc

Roy Howell 04-18-2005 11:21 AM

Latest Stuff...

Cavet Your Eruptor 04-18-2005 01:26 PM

Re: Let\'s hear your latest stuff....right here

If anyone gets a chance, I would certainly appreciate feedback. There is a slightly modified version now up on the webpage:


I'm mostly interested in comments about the mix, but any input would be helpful! Thanks!

IntelDoc 04-18-2005 01:43 PM

Re: Let\'s hear your latest stuff....right here
Alright, here is my opinions..... all opinions of course as we all learn from this place.

Lets start with the guitars:

1. Acoustics seem a tad harsh going in. Almost clipping or too compressed. Sounds like it was all breaking up. I would try to record them and get the levels to hit the yellow and then compress to desired sound. Then, re-record them on seperate tracks and pan the two hard left and right. That will give the image of having a larger guitar sound and thicken up your tracks.

2. Electric guitars are a tad distracting to be that far to the left speaker. I would mic it with 2 individual mics if you have them. I use a 57 and a 421 combo a lot. Just to blend the sounds. Then, I would pan that to about 40 and -40. That will smooth it, or double that as well and make it 80 / -80 on top of the acoustics.

3. Solo guitar: Too loud! and needs somethng, just too dry. I would add a 2 tap stereo delay and throw that beast hard left and right. Add a trueverb or something to smooth out the playing and compress it to take away some of the dynamics that it already lacks. Not to be rude, some of the notes were off too.

4. Bass: - Compress it! HARD!

5. Vocals - Add a 2 tap delay, same as the guitars.... but make that send very, very low... just to give it some depth. Maybe EQ it a tad more... a bit harsh and too hot in the mix.

6. Drums, sound good from what I hear, but sould be compressed some more I am sure.

All and all, that is what I can say. Good attempt and definitely keep working at it. Got a good thing to work with, with decent sounds, just watch your levels going in. That acoustic sounds very washed and distorted.

Again, just opinions and not trying to sound rude, just trying to help.

- Doc

Cavet Your Eruptor 04-18-2005 10:48 PM

Re: Let\'s hear your latest stuff....right here

Thank you so much! That's exactly the kind of help I need! If you get a chance (or if anyone wants to listen now) to listen to the song again, I reposted a new version trying to implement your suggestions. I am still pretty new to this, but with everyone's help I feel like I'm learning so much. Thanks again to IntelDoc and thanks in advance to anyone else that has any comments.

The latest version:


IntelDoc 04-19-2005 07:07 AM

Re: Let\'s hear your latest stuff....right here
Better, but the vocals are still too loud in my mind. I would lower them about 2 to 3db. Are you compressing them too? If so, what compressor. Also, you just doubled the acoustics and panned it didn't ya? I would actualy replay it again and pan it left, then play it a second time through and pan it right. Just sounds too distorted to be honest. Nice little strummy part, but sounds like you went in too hot to start. Sounds like it is clipping. The electric parts in the center is better though.

Keep trying, it is getting there.

- Doc

Cavet Your Eruptor 04-19-2005 08:04 AM

Re: Let\'s hear your latest stuff....right here

Thanks (again!) for listening (again!) to the revisions. The vocal doesn't have any compression on it, but that is easily fixed. The only compressor I have is the DigiRack Compressor II that came built into ProTools. I did re-record the acoustic, but you are correct, I just doubled and panned it. I had originally recorded it going through a compressor, but this time just took it straight in. I thought I had kept the level low enough, but I guess not. The only processing on the acoustic is EQ. I'll try to work on it some more tonight.

Thanks again - you've been really helpful!

IntelDoc 04-19-2005 09:01 AM

Re: Let\'s hear your latest stuff....right here
Remember, when you double and pan something that is the same file, it is essentially MONO. Now it may sound louder, but it is the same wave file, just panned.... Pnned makes it MONO. If you do this, you may try nudging it forward a few millisecs and adding some sort of quick slap delay on it. You can then fake it, but it still sounds like the same guitar track. Doubling just sounds better. Listen to the song I posted up above and you will hear that the guitars are doubled. I also have a very subtle 2 tap delay on them that you really can hear only in headphones, but it just adds a little more depth to it all.

Keep at it.

Seriously try to play the part twice. You have the tracks to use, and the CPU I am sure.

I would do this:

1. Record the acoustic: Not sure on your mic selection but... if I had to I would guess... SM-57 and maybe a SM-58. MAybe a few other pencil (SD) mics.

I would put the pencel mic on the 12th fret about a foot away pointing in at the 12th fret towards the sound hole. Still focus on the 12th as it will give you the string sound. BUt angle it towards the body of the guitar. Then take another mic and point that to the soundhole. Not directly at it, kinda slightly above it and back. That gives you the body of sound that acoustics need. Then run that to the Digi002 preamps (obviously) Take the levels to clip, then back off and then back off slightly again as most players tend to play harder when recording. Give yourself some headroom so you can add effects and dynamics later if needed. Play a few secs to hear it back.
Get a good solid signal going in without distorting, or making the guitar sound so harsh. You want acoustic, not distorted acoustic.

2. The ELECTRIC GUITAR: Put that SM-57 in front of your speaker cabinet at the speaker. Take it and center it on the cone, then move it towards the outside of the cone about 2/3 rds to the edge. Then take the mic and turn it slightly in towards the center. Not directly, but just a little off access.... That should beef up the sound a tad. If you are going direct, then find another sound. Not diggin it to be honest. Too shrilly...... Needs to be a little tougher. Again, bring to clip, then back off and get into the yellow (again leaves room for compression later)

3. Vocals: Man, way too HOT! They drown out the rest of the mix. Compress afterwards. If all you have is the digi stuff, then that is all you have. You can still make it sound good. I recommending getting the WVES bundle for sure though. I would add a long tail reverb and buss your vocals out to that. Blend to what sounds good. Just try not to make the vocals so loud. Take a stereo AUX track and add a reverb to it. Bus your vocals to it. Also you can do this for the acoustics and make the BUS fader low in so that ou do not wash out the guitars. Just going for a little BIGGER sound. Not so tight in your face.

4. GUITAR SOLOS: Sounds better that it is more centered. I would make it 50/-50 and see what that does. Again, add a slight delay (with another BUSS) and space it out some to add depth.

5. Drums, sound alright, a bit too much in the highs. Compression will help some.

Keep at it and hope this helps. A little long, but I can tell that you are learning and that is how the DUC helped me out.

- Doc

Cavet Your Eruptor 04-19-2005 11:00 AM

Re: Let\'s hear your latest stuff....right here

In fact I do have both an SM57 and SM58, but (perhaps sadly) I was using a AKG C3000 to record the acoustic guitar. I had positioned it about 8 inches from the soundhole, but cheating toward the fretboard. I never mentioned, but I am using an 001.

Also, I remembered that I have the BombFactory BF76 compressor (from that free bundle), but I don't have a real good idea of how that one works. Would it be worth the time to get more familiar with that one? Is it better than the DigiRack plugin?

The electric was actually recorded direct from a PODxt. I have done nothing with those tracks (dual mono) at all. Maybe some compression and EQ could help those out too?

And now for my latest "revealing how much of a novice I am" question: How is it different to run a track through a Bus with a plug-in, than to just have the plug-in on the track itself? Could you then just bus each track that needs reverb, for example, to a single "reverb" track? Needless to say I have just been adding plug-ins on each track and adjusting the parameters as needed for that particular track.

I hope I'm not taking up all your time, but this info is like gold for me!!

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