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-   -   Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack? (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=389666)

Darryl Ramm 08-14-2017 03:48 AM

Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
The main reason to use S/PDIF is just to avoid stuff like hum/noise pickup. And unneeded conversion to analog and back to digital.... although fir most stuff I doubt folks can hear anything that.

The reason the Eleven Rack sounded "crap" is you were either using the dry signal when you should have used the wet, or you did not spend time to dial in the amp sim. If I gave you a room of something like a dozen amps and dozen cabs how many days would you spend playing playing with them looking for the right tone...


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Jay_uk 08-14-2017 04:54 AM

Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinh (Post 2418973)
So Ive read the manual and it says something about True-Z circuit changing the guitar signal the same "manner as plugging into a real amp or effect." It doesn't say what that impedance value is.

This statement implies that you are unaware of the True-Z setting/selection
In edit mode…the first block is the "input" and thats where the True-Z setting/selection is.
turning the knob underneath it selects different settings.
Auto may be the best default setting.
Couild be you have had it on a low setting, which is not suitable to the pick ups you are using.

panamajack 08-14-2017 11:29 AM

Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinh (Post 2418717)
. . . Was wondering if I need to convert to mic level before it goes into Eleven and by doing this I'll have the original tone (the highs) of the guitar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinh (Post 2418973)
. . . True-Z circuit changing the guitar signal the same "manner as plugging into a real amp or effect." It doesn't say what that impedance value is. . .

. . . This supposed True-Z, do I need to activate it? Is is supposed to act as a DI box? Does it bring the high impedance down to low? It's just that there's no difference plugging into my interface vs going through eleven. NONE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinh (Post 2445039)
I have a countryman type 85 active di box and obviously an eleven rack..rack. And mbox pro.
It's clear to me the true-z does little to nothing to the signal to improve or alter the impedance for recording at least for clean presets. . .

My question is simply

1) if I ran a di box into an eleven rack input will the signal be altered in any way. In other words will the eleven rack mess up the di box signal after the outputs of eleven go direct into interface?

2) My second question is if I run the output of eleven rack (essentially amp out) into my di box (with guitar-in eleven obviously) will I get a purer tone than the above given the di box is last on the chain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinh (Post 2445043)
. . . What you're saying is run a S/PDIF from eleven not an analogue XLR. If yes, is it possible the reason eleven sounded crap was because I used XLR to mbox to record rather than digital? . . .

There may be some confusion as to the method you have used to experiment with your tone. Your first post above may have been prompted by how you subsequently note you were using the XLR connections from the 11R into the mbox. You would have had to pad the input or use a line level input on the mbox or you would likely get a distorted signal.

After reading your posts, the question remains as to what guitar and which stage amp would you use if you did not own an 11R?

Whatever the answer to that might be will affect your expectations from the 11R.

But your statements above reveal confusion about how to connect your hardware:

You do not need an mbox to record, the audio from the 11R will travel through the USB connection to the computer, assuming your 11R driver is loaded. (Although there are other connections possible.)

If you want to experiment with the mbox, then how you connect the 11R becomes critical. If you connect the XLR output from the 11R to the mbox, you will be sending a line level (slightly boosted signal). If you connect the "amp outputs" you will be sending an instrument level signal, the same level signal your (passive) guitar signal sends, but which may have been processed and converted to "rig output."

The True-Z settings are not for impedance matching, they are for emulating the way certain combo amp input jacks interact with instrument level guitar signals. Whether your guitar has single coil, double coil, passive or active pickups, and even the choice of potentiometers and any capacitors/resistors wired in-line, will affect tone.

Even if you have connected your cables correctly (for whatever purpose), you must additionally select the type of signal being routed to Pro Tools.

To answer your two simple questions:

1) The 11R "guitar in" input jack accepts a high impedance signal, but your Direct box outputs a low impedance signal. The benefit of a low impedance balanced signal is to reduce the hum created by long cable runs. Doing what you are asking is contrary to how the 11R is designed.

2) Searching for a "purer tone" is very subjective. The best direct boxes add no coloration. If you used the correct connections, it would allow longer cable runs from the "amp outs" -- but is unnecessary from the balanced XLR line-level outputs.

Kinh 08-16-2017 01:07 AM

Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
Firstly, thanks for your replies.

So check it out. I did an A B comparison (the eleven rack True-z against a countryman type85 di box) and there was a noticeable difference.
The countryman had more detail, brighter highs, more presence. The eleven was muddier, had warmer tone, more bass, less highs.

Both recorded clean. I'm using an SG, middle position and bridge.
The eleven had all fx off except input (true-z auto 1M ohm +cap)..I also tried it at half way (70k ohm) and virtually no difference.
Same cable for both and just mono out for eleven (as countryman is same). I'm using Main Outs from eleven not Line outs.

Now, see if you can spot the difference.
https://soundcloud.com/matthewcrowe/ab-comparison-saddle-pickup
https://soundcloud.com/matthewcrowe/ab-comparison

Darryl Ramm 08-16-2017 01:48 AM

Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
Again, I am lost why you are focusing on this. Yes listening to comparisons is great., but...

Your first sample is at two different levels, the louder one is likely to sound better. And the rest is just slight differences in EQ.

You don't need a DI box in front of the Eleven Rack, it's the "wrong way" to do stuff. Just set stuff up properly and know what/how to adjust stuff to dial in the tone you want.

I don't have any idea what you are ultimately going for but more commonly folks would get great clean guitar tone with a suitable clean amp not with a dry guitar signal. That wet but clean amp gives you lots of access to dial in what you want, extra EQ, tone shaping, compression, sustain and some pleasant harmonics.


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panamajack 08-16-2017 08:56 AM

Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
Thanks for posting the comparison.

My ears hear a little more bottom in the 11 Rack sample than from the Countryman DI--but both sound like acoustic steel-strings, not what I associate with a Gibson SG. I had an SG Standard a generation ago and liked it best through a Big Muff II.

For what you might be going for, I would reach for a good grade of Martin or Taylor steel string and mic them up with a pair of condensers through a good quality pre-amp.

As an aside, I have a Gibson Chet Atkins nylon/electric with piezo pickups. It sounds a little better run through a Fishman "Aura for nylon" (ascoustic imaging stomp box) with the preset on number "12" -- but it is a subtle improvement.

There is a plugin sold by Sonnox called "Oxford Inflator" that has a similar subtle effect as when the "Aura" is added to the Gibson Chet Atkins. It is not something you notice when it is in use until you remove it, then it sounds like something is missing. There is a Youtube video called "Show and Tell of Sonnox Oxford Inflator" that illustrates the plugin.

shredking 09-18-2021 12:30 PM

Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
When you put the 11R in tuner mode, all effects turn off and you get a clean tone. It will record clean on your DAW and you can shape your tone from there by adding effects.

DonaldR 10-01-2021 04:26 PM

Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
I hope the guy found a solution in the last 4 years :D

albee1952 10-02-2021 09:21 AM

Re: Do I need a DI box to run into Eleven rack?
 
Indeed! Based on what he says, I bet he doesn't(didn't) have the speaker cab emulation turned on:o


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