HDX with Dante Via
 

I've got a HD I/O and HDX card on Mac Pro. I've also got a Presonus Mixer RM16AI with a Dante card in it in a room about 50 feet away. Ethernet cable is running from Dante to the Mac. My goal is to use the Presonus to mic drums and bring up those inputs in Pro Tools. I want to monitor in the control room and have the drummer be able to monitor from the Presonus outputs. So far, I've been able to get the inputs to come up in Pro Tools and get audio but despite many experiments have yet to be able to get my main stereo bus to come up on the HD I/O. Seemingly I've connected the right elements to each other in Via, but obviously there is some piece of the puzzle I'm missing.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Can't use Dante Via and HDX/HD i/o at the same time. Two different audio engines. If you want to use HDX with Dante (and the HD i/o) you need a Dante audio interface hooked up to the HDX card. Focusrite Rednet 5 or the Avid MTRX are two such interfaces.

Your other option is a standalone Dante to analogue/AES/ADAT converter that converts the Dante signal to either AES, ADAT, or Analogue that feeds into the HD i/o.

Whatever you choose, Pro Tools can only use one audio engine and it's either via CoreAudio access (which means Dante Via) or HDX. Not both.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

We purchased three of the Focusrite Red 4Pre which has built-in Dante and Avid DigiLink. Works GREAT in combination with our Avid HD IO and is seen as another 32 channels on the HD card. The Focusrite Red 8Pre does give you the full 64-channels on Dante. The units also have Thunderbolt and we will, eventually, lose our HD Native cards and go totally Thunderbolt with these and build out a larger Dante network within the facility.

BTW, the Red 4Pre is currently on sale at $700 off!!

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...srite-red-4pre

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Not according to the Focusrite manuals and site. 32ch Dante per unit for the entire 4/8/16 line, which is turning out to be a dealbreaker.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

The Focusrite Red interfaces include 32x32 channels of Dante networked audio, in addition to their onboard analog and digital i/o.

For the Red 8 Pre, which I own and use, it has 8 mic preamps/line inputs, plus 8 more line level inputs, as well as two ADAT ports which can be used in SMUX mode for 8 channels at 96kHz or 16 at 48kHz, plus two more S/PDIF ports; for a total of 64x64 channels.

The 16Line include the same i/o, except that that they only have 2 mic preamps.

The Red 4Pre includes 4 mic preamps, but will only do a maximum of 58 channels, for whatever reason, as does the Red 8 Line which also only has 2 mic preamps.

It's true though, if you want to get 64 channels of Dante into your Protools HDX/HD Native system, you will need a Red Net 5 (which are fairly cheap, but becoming very hard to find these days) or an HD32R or two, or one and a Red interface.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Those are NOT computer interfaces, but rather Pro Tools interfaces. Big difference. Focusrite simply doesn’t make the multipurpose product I am looking for. And that’s a shame.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Each one of those interfaces has a Thunderbolt port and will connect directly to a computer. If you want an interface with 64 channels of Dante and Digilink ports, the only one on the market is the Avid MTRX Studio.

You can buy two HD32Rs for way less than rhe price of the MTRX Studio.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

The HD32R has no Thunderbolt port. No computer interface at all.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

What exactly are you looking to do?

If you already have an HDX card, a pair of the HD32Rs will allow you to connect a Dante network to your HDX card and get all 64 channels into Protools.

Or you can use a Red interface and a single HD32R which will give you 64 Dante inputs or a combination of Dante and analog+digital I/O.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Red 16 Line gives you 16 channels of ADA, 32 channels of Dante, 16 channels of ADAT, Thunderbolt and Digilink connectivity.
If you need 64 channels of Dante then try the PCIER card- that will do 128 channels (but no HDX).

I would love Focusrite to have done one device that did 64+ channels of Dante plus Thunderbolt & hardware monitoring but they don't.

I currently use a combination of a Red 16 Line, PCIER card and an Avid MTRX.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

I will never understand why Focusrite, and only Focusrite, seems to think Dante is a 32 channel interface. They make some really impressive looking products which are utterly useless because of this single fact. An engineer at Focusrite said to me “I really don’t know why we do that.”

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Eventide does the same.
Due to duplexing (of Dante, MADI, etc.) it's to guarantee 32 i/o when at 96k. So vs giving 64 i/o at 44.1/48 and 32 i/o at 88.2/96, they just limit to always being 32 i/o.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

I guess you missed the Focusrite PCIeR Dante card, which is 128x128 channels of Dante at 96k (192x192 at 48k).

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

That is the most pathetic reasoning I have ever heard for halving the capability of an interface. I’m NOT referring to your reply, which I appreciate! Seriously, two companies do this, dozens more don’t. Dante is a 64 channel interface, period. Same with MADI. Have you ever heard of a MADI interface being limited like you described? No, never.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

No, I didn’t miss that. Try getting that into Pro Tools HD. If it doesn’t have HDX connectors, it doesn’t exist for me.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

And on a sidenote, the Dante interface in MTRX Studio is 64 channels at all samplerates, all the way up to 192 kHz.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

I totally share the sentiments of disapproval of Focusrite's design choices. It cost me $400 USD to add a 64 channel audinate Dante card to my DAD DX-32R. I suspect most of Focusrite's Dante products are well equipped to handle 64 channels of Dante, but they are trying to leverage 32 channel limits to sell more hardware.

Just as an example, at Sweetwater today it will cost $4000 to buy 64 channels of Dante to digilink through Focusrite. An Avid MTRX on the other hand costs $4999, includes 64 channels of Dante, 64 channels of digilink, Adat I/O, 16 channels of first class AD/DA, full monitor controller and routing matrix, and SPQ speaker calibration.

If other manufacturers are anything to go by, the difference between a device offering 32 or 64 channels of Dante is a couple of hundred bucks... not a couple of thousand...

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

You are right, however, the main reason the line only has 32 channels of Dante is, in my opinion, because of Avid. You only get 32-channels of IO per DigiLink cable, so why have a device with 64-Dante when you can't get it into your HD/HDX card? Two devices with 32 each, two DigiLink cables into HDX, and you've got 64-channels.

We're using the Focusrite D64R with our SSL console, converting 64-Dante to MADI into an SSL MADI router and converted to Digilink to HDX, but it does take two DigiLink cables to get 64x64 Dante.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

It is an infuriating situation, and, I’m sorry, but all the attempts to justify it are nonsense. There is no correlation between Dante’s capability and HDX’s. It’s been years since anyone produced an interface with fewer than 2 HDX ports, and for good reason. 32 channels serves pretty much no professional user’s needs.

It damages the reputation of a company like Focusrite to continue down this wholly unjustifiable path. The responses I’ve received from Focusrite support about this are, frankly, embarrassed and embarrassing. Their outstanding support team must cringe each time they are called on this.

I have the money to buy from Focusrite, but they simply refuse to build the product I, and many pro users, need. A 64 channel interface (their words, not mine) that can only support 32 on its most important professional connection, is a slap in the face to the industry they purport to lead.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Not anymore. Pro Tools now supports 64 channels of I/O natively. Anyone using a Red 16 Line should email Focusrite immediately and pressure them into updating the firmware to support 64 ch of Dante, if the hardware will support it.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

My confusion... I'm thinking only 32-channels per DigiLink cable, which has always been the case. ProTools reverts to only 32-IO without Avid hardware, which is my biggest complaint.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

No confusion. You are correct on the digilink limitation. I was merely pointing out that if one were to use the Red Line 16 as a stand-alone thunderbolt interface, you can now get up to 64 channels of I/O with Pro Tools. Thus rendering the 32ch Dante limitation of that box obsolete.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

What I want is very simple to describe, almost impossible to find.

64 channels of Dante and MADI, 32 channels of analog; that all map to either/both of the following industry-standard interfaces. Pro Tools HD is my main app. But it would be foolish for me to limit myself to ONLY Pro Tools HD if I don’t need to.

It is that simple. The choices are very few.

Antelope Galaxy 32.
Antelope Galaxy 64.

That’s it. The MATRIX can’t do it. A rack full of Focusrites can’t do it. An open checkbook does me no good here. The industry is simply hot air and hype, while my actual needs are pretty damned simple. I want a light and small flight pack, no compromises system. Just reading the ads would make you think lots of companies make such a product. Those ads are, to be charitable, BS.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

RedNet 5 isn’t going to solve my needs. Where are the MADI and analog? The RedNet 5 hogs all 64 HDX IO to itself, requiring a second HDX card and more interfaces to be able to route my IO needs to ProTools. I hope I am being clear enough here. No solution exists with Focusrite.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Man, you're talking about a lot of hardware capability there.

You basically want an all-in-one-do-everything-in-one-box unit. The laws of product marketing just don't work that way.

And to your point, You can get what you want with 3U of Focusrite:
Red 8Pre/16Line
HD32R
and D64R

That's 3U, costs about $500 less than the Antelope Galaxy 64. You can save more if you can find them on the refurb Focusrite Pro site.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Actually, Eric, that opinion is not factual. The marketplace is just selling a lot of hot air for those of us who have large production needs. Each HDX connector is 32IO. That’s a given and you’ll notice nobody makes anything with fewer than two of them anymore. Focusrite, however, sells boxes with two HDX (64 IO) and Dante (32 IO). WHY?!?!?! What are they thinking? Adding a D64R, as they suggest, takes that MADI port to give Dante’s full, NORMAL capacity. So, you now have 64 Dante into 64 HDX, with no available MADI port and a paltry 16 local analog IO. That just doesn’t cut it.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Well we've made the D64R work in our situation as Dante isn't our normal IO but additional to 128 MADI channels, all going through an SSL MADI router that gives us flexibility. Regardless, there's lots out there to make it work.

My biggest complaint is that if we were to use, for example, and RME 128 or 192 channel MADI or Dante IO card in the MacPro, ProTools would limit us to 32-IO because we don't have any of their hardware. I understand they are in the hardware business, but I'd pay for a premium software license to open that up. I don't need their hardware in many of our rooms.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Protools now offers up to 64 channels of I/O, as of 2021.5(?), Without needing Avid hardware. To go above 64 channels now, of course you need an HDX card.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Few know that Core Audio has 256 IO capability built right in by Apple. I believe RME uses 128 IO, or maybe even more. Avid is the biggest impediment to the success of Pro Tools users. Ironic, huh?

I’m sorry to be finicky, but there is not “lots out there to make it work”. My work includes major awards shows and live music television. Dante is my chosen stage IO. MADI is standard procedure for touring consoles and TV trucks, and 32 IO of analog is just about right for the 5.1 monitors plus 8-10 stereo/mono stems I am always asked for.

All of those formats need to have access to 64HDX IO for me to do my shows. Note, I’m not asking for 160 simultaneous IO, but some combination of 64 total, simultaneously assignable to HDX, split among the formats of Dante, MADI, and 32 available analog IO.

A MATRIX configured that way is about $30k, too much for my bank, AND still does not have TB/USB3 capability if I choose to work with another DAW. I’m not daydreaming, this is what I need and it must be small and light to make $ sense. My current HD system does this, but weighs 1800lbs and costs me $1500 per day just for crew and cartage, and that’s a dealbreaker.

If you have lots of spare time, you can look for an alternative solution. I’ve put a couple hundred hours into it. Many will drop the $30K on MATRIX and have no alternate DAW choice. That seems extreme to me.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Because both of the MiniDigilink connectors on the Red interfaces are PRIMARY connectors. You can't attach an expansion module to them the way you can an HD I/O. You connect both of the Primary DigiLink connectors on the Red interfaces to both of the Digilink connectors on an HD Native box or HDX card to get 64 channels into Protools from a single box.

You can route the 16 analog inputs as well as 16 ADAT inputs (at 48k, or 8 at 96k) to Protools through the Digilink connectors, and then ALSO route 32 channels of additional inputs from Dante through the Second Digilink connector. To give you 64 channels of I/O at 48k, or 56 at 96k (actually, it would be 58 if you route the two-S/PDIF inputs also).

In Protools the Red interface appears as Four 16 channel HD I/O units if you have both Digilink connectors connected to your HDN or HDX card. They come up as HD I/O A, B, C, or D.

You can grab any inputs on the Dante network, or use a D64R and an HD32R to connect 64 channels of MADI and convert them to Dante to input into Protools.

If you don't need the analog/ADAT I/O on the Red interface, you can route it's internal 32 channels of Dante to it's first Digilink port, and then connect an HD32R to the second Digilink port of the HDN or HDX card for another 32 channels of Dante.

There are ways to do what you want.

But you aren't going to get 32 channels of analog I/O, as well as 64 channels of Dante, PLUS 64 channels of MADI at the same time, unless you have an HDX 3 set up.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Look at my post above. You can do exactly that in 3U from Focusrite, with a couple of 8 channel ADAT preamps, and an 8 channel analog mic preamp, so 6U total, plus power conditioner and patch panels, snakes, etc..

Red 8 Pre, HD32R, D64R. That's 64 channels into Protools HD Native or HDX split among 32 channels of analog I/O, and Dante, with MADI getting fed into the Dante network.

The great thing is that it also allows for redundant recording by using DVS for a secondary Protools system which can be synced by the included Satellite Link Function.

I've done it. it works. It's easy.

If you don't have the time; I'm willing to fly down to Florida for a week and put a system together for you and configure and test it. I'll charge a lot less than $30k, even including the cost of the hardware. I'm experienced working with both Dante and MADI, Protools HD and can solder and build network cables. I'm also Dante certified and have designed and installed other Dante based systems, including my own mobile recording system.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

I moved from the Red 16 Line to the MTRX, because it had too few Dante channels.
I didn't drop 30k on the MTRX- the critical conversion uses MTRX converters (mic pre's), the rest is over Dante (outboard and synths).
I have 16 channels of IO in the MTRX and 48 channels of Dante conversion and 32 channels of H9000 Dante conversion.
I also have the Dante expansion card in the MTRX.
It was around £15k for all the MTRX cards and the unit itself.
My Dante converters cost about £5k plus £6k for the H9000.

For an alternate DAW I use the Rednet PCIEr card (£800 retail).

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

I realize that my exact IO needs can be hard to grasp, but charted out as I have them, they still are not satisfied by any of the ‘simple’ solutions being offered. Make no mistake though, they are appreciated.

My needs are a matrix with 64 Dante, 64 MADI, and 32 (not 16!) Analog IO - 160 always available channels in and out; which can route to/fro either 64 HDX of PT HD OR 64 TB/USB3 computer IO. It’s not that complicated but the numbers are cast in stone for me, and portability is paramount. Antelope offers a solution, purportedly, but can’t or won’t discuss it pre-sales.

Focusrite is very accessible and helpful, but presents a rapidly growing kluge of size and weight at twice the price. Certainly anyone here offering ideas can understand that might be disqualfying for me.

I really appreciate the feedback here. Just please take note of my needs described above before telling me it’s a cinch. If it was, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And again, thank you for all your efforts.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Maybe you need to reign in your expectation for a one box solution? The fact that so few devices do what you want would suggest there’s not much market for one.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

$ but nice. PrismSound, Dream 128.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

The Galaxy 64 absolutely annihilates your suggested Focusrite setup in terms of functionality, though. It is a 128 channel HDX interface, 64 channel thunderbolt interface, 64 channel Dante interface, 64 channel madi interface, and has 64 channels of AD/DA to connect to a large format console.

...and you can use them all at the same time! There is a big ol' FPGA mixer with FX right in the middle of all that I/O, with full routing matrix that allows you to route any input to any output, including using the FPGA FX as hardware inserts on any DAW or even the analogue console, construct headphone mixes, do format conversion. It does it all. The Galaxy 64 is a 388 I/O box that allows you to use every single one of them at any given time.

Avid and DAD are doing exactly the same with their current devices. The MTRX Studio might only have 64 channels of digilink on it, but it is effectively a 154 I/O device. The addition of a full routing matrix inside the box makes it far more than even just a 154 I/O device because you can quickly and easily multi signals to go to various places.

The Focusrite boxes are just wasted I/O city by comparison.

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

Do Antelope's drivers still suck though?

Re: HDX with Dante Via
 

I'm not sure it entirely matters. Digilink devices all use the same HD driver. The Galaxy 64 works in standalone mode with a control app. Installing the thunderbolt drivers is entirely optional.
It's worth the punt, if you ask me. At least the Galaxy 64 has a chance of thunderbolt and digilink audio working at the same time.

I used a Zen Studio for two years and never had an issue with it. It was a walk in the park compared to my recent experiences with updating firmware on a HDN card. The only complaint I have seen about the Galaxy 64 is from a user who was cranky at Antelope for releasing the Galaxy 32. The 64 halves Dante channel counts when sample rates are increased. The 32 doesn't do that.