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-   -   Freeze vs Commit (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=417974)

Mixmaster Rick 11-28-2021 09:35 PM

Freeze vs Commit
 
I'm running Pro Tools 2021.10.0 and haven't ever used the Track Commit or Freeze options. Can you explain the differences between them and give me real world examples of the benefits of each? Are there any Cons in using either?

My environment:
macOS Catalina Version 10.15.7 (19H1519)
16 GB RAM
SSD Internal
Two external G-Technology SATA drives
Apollo x6 with an Octo Satellite
Avid S1
Avid Dock

Sardi 11-29-2021 04:14 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=375528


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Mixmaster Rick 11-29-2021 01:00 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Great - thanks for responding.

JFreak 11-29-2021 01:35 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
If the search function on this site is inadequate for you, try googling like this:

Code:

> your keywords here +site:duc.avid.com

Mixmaster Rick 11-29-2021 02:49 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Thank you

JFreak 11-29-2021 02:53 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
No problem. And if you for some reason want to see what other sites say about the same thing, you can reverse the search to exclude duc.avid.com by turning that plus into minus

midnightrambler 11-30-2021 03:40 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Personally I've never found myself using Freeze very much. It's handy if you've got e.g. some sort of panner which isn't clocked to the tempo and you want to be consistent for all the various versions of mixes you're printing. Sometimes I freeze a track just to look at the magnificent difference in the waveform pre- and post- processing. But they're just a massive pain in the neck if you or the talent suddenly decide you need to chop up the structure of the track, or even just try out various edits further down the timeline.

Anyway I'm usually too scared to use it as I'm terrified the plug-ins won't come back as I left them, especially if there's been some sort of OS (or other) software update. (Possibly irrational.)

JFreak 11-30-2021 04:09 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightrambler (Post 2620677)
I'm usually too scared to use it as I'm terrified the plug-ins won't come back as I left them, especially if there's been some sort of OS (or other) software update. (Possibly irrational.)

The way I have used is this.

- create your instrument track and only have the VI plugin there
- create aux track with plugins needed, route instrument track to aux
- once "done", freeze or commit the VI track to mark it is "done"

Mixmaster Rick 11-30-2021 06:28 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Thank you all - My guess is these options at the least reduce the overall stress on the Host CPU by reducing the overhead of the track's plugins correct? Please let me know if that's accurate and if there are any other ways these are used.

Best,

Rick

JFreak 11-30-2021 06:30 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Normal plugins are not often CPU heavy, but of course when you are using one, or one that requires large amount of latency compensation, it is useful. I only use it on VI's though


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Mixmaster Rick 11-30-2021 06:38 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Sorry - now I am confused.

From reading several posts or watching videos prior to starting this thread everyone discussed using Freeze or Commit a track in order to free up resources caused by heavy plugin use in tracks.

I appreciate your insight.

JFreak 11-30-2021 07:32 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Of course it frees up resources while using other resources (storage). In my point of view it is not needed for "normal" plugins apart from commiting to something as in "this track is done". It is however very useful in commiting to VI track once MIDI is done. And few posts up I told what is the easiest way of going back if needed to. Only commit to the VI, not other processing (apart of obviously what is essential to the sound of the instrument) which is mixing and likely changes over time.

Mixmaster Rick 11-30-2021 05:08 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Perfect!
Thanks Janne

take77 11-30-2021 08:28 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
For me, "Freeze" = Temporary (during composing & tracking)
and "Commit", = Finalization (during and after mixing).

For example, I may temporarily freeze a set of instrument plugins after establishing some basic tracking accompaniment before recording audio tracks.
This is not always necessary on my setup, but sometimes really active cymbal parts in the drum plugin I use can cause CPU spikes when recording guitar through an amp/fx plugin at a lower buffer size.
Then if I want to modify a drum pattern, I can momentarily unfreeze the track.

I have a modest setup so it's just an efficiency method when needed.
It's mainly when the cymbals are really active or if I want to load more layers and free memory for more multi-sampled/processed instrument tracks while recording.

When mixing, I commit in sections/sub-groups as they are established to open up processing power for the mix & master bus.
Or commit lightly processed tracks for stem export so that a more professional mixer can import the tracks and have their way with them!

This is just my approach at a hobbyist level.
More professional producers can provide more ideas as to their own logistics & foresight.
And their machines likely have way more processing power so they can do as they please~ with such ease~ with no need to freeze***;)

Mixmaster Rick 11-30-2021 10:02 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
What a fantastic response and thanks!

This is the type of feedback I need. My initial post was a result of a session I am working on for a client. I am in the process of upgrading (methodically) my environment and for now my MacBook only has 16GB of RAM. WIth the amount of tracks he's provided and the overall amount of plugins being used there have been a few times when my system has basically halted. Yes, I have gone through the proper optimization both on the system level as well as in Pro Tools so I am trying to regain as much resources as I can until I upgrade to another computer.

Having said that I have implemented some UAD Apollo gear and can get by when absolutely necessary by using LUNA and the UAD plugins. Because I'd rather work in Pro Tools I'm guessing occasional freeze or commit on some tracks may help me resource-wise?

Again, thanks for your response.

Extreme Mixing 11-30-2021 11:14 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Use Commit. It creates an audio file that becomes a permanent part of the session. Freeze makes a temporary audio file that disappears when you, or someone else un freezes the track. That can be inconvenient if you are not expecting it.

And, yes it can save resources. If you are using, say Trillian for bass, playing back the audio file is a lot less DSP intensive than having the instrument up.

Steve

Mixmaster Rick 11-30-2021 11:38 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
I'll give it a try Steve.
Thanks for the feedback.

Rick

JFreak 12-01-2021 01:05 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Yes, as said freezing is intermediate solution. As long as you are not sure if your Trillian track is done, freezing may help on some occasion, but once the track is "final" (what is that) then you better commit and not touch it again.

take77 12-01-2021 02:26 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing (Post 2620806)
Use Commit. It creates an audio file that becomes a permanent part of the session. Freeze makes a temporary audio file that disappears when you, or someone else un freezes the track. That can be inconvenient if you are not expecting it.

And, yes it can save resources. If you are using, say Trillian for bass, playing back the audio file is a lot less DSP intensive than having the instrument up.

Steve

Going along with that advice, Commit gives the option of keeping the the original track in an inactive state.
So you could opt to commit even on a temp basis and reactivate the original track if need be.

*Tip: Make sure to establish all your tempos before temporarily freezing too. Otherwise you'll have to unfreeze & re-freeze everything to adjust tempos while recording and that can interrupt a good recording vibe & workflow.

I use the Trilian bass module also. Sometimes two instances for different sections. Rock & Synth Bass trade offs!
As JFreak mentioned, I'll commit the instrument only to free up resources and THEN insert plugins on the committed track.
That way I have a "lighter" audio clip of the bass track that I can still experiment with plugin-wise (as the mix changes) or apply clip gain & fades during the mix phase.

When VI drums are done, I'll commit multi-output to separate audio tracks. Again, just the instrument plugin and maybe a limiter.
That way I can remix and save various versions of the unprocessed committed tracks.
After my instrument tracks are done, I usually have enough resources for mix plugins and would only need commit again if exporting as session stems.

Whether you choose to freeze or commit, restarting Pro Tools frees up the RAM allotted to previously active instrument plugins.

Extreme Mixing 12-01-2021 04:58 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Yes. Commit up to this insert is a beautiful thing. And Hide and Make Inactive is best option for the original instrument track.

I also usually commit Melodyne when I'm done tuning because I love the Clip Gain line for automation.

Steve

midnightrambler 12-01-2021 06:08 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing (Post 2620834)

I also usually commit Melodyne when I'm done tuning because I love the Clip Gain line for automation.

Steve

Ha. I've found myself doing a lot of that within the Melodyne environment of late.

Mixmaster Rick 12-01-2021 12:35 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Hi,

For me the CPU hit is minimal; it's more about how to retain as much memory as possible.

JFreak 12-01-2021 12:52 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixmaster Rick (Post 2620924)
Hi,

For me the CPU hit is minimal; it's more about how to retain as much memory as possible.

Yes, freezing/commiting also frees up memory (after session restart).

albee1952 12-01-2021 01:15 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
I use Freeze as a strictly temporary thing and unfreeze when the session is ready to close. I can always re-freeze the next time, or I will COMMIT, and leave the original track inactive but showing if I think I will need to make changes. With Melodyne, I will select "Do Nothing" to the original track and move the .cm audio file back to the original track on a new Playlist and make Melodyne inactive(or remove it). You have many options, so find what suits you best;)

take77 12-01-2021 04:14 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Thanks Steve, for reminding me of the commit up to insert feature.
I'll have to read up since I'm just getting back into everything.

Extreme Mixing 12-02-2021 11:11 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midnightrambler (Post 2620841)
Ha. I've found myself doing a lot of that within the Melodyne environment of late.

Yes. I've done it both ways. Clip Gain is just more normal to my habits. There is nothing worse than adjusting some clips only to realize that nothing is changing because PT is not really playing back the pretty pictures that you are looking at! But it all works. Timing changes are usually best done in Melodyne. For me...

Steve

midnightrambler 12-02-2021 01:11 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing (Post 2621124)
Yes. I've done it both ways. Clip Gain is just more normal to my habits. There is nothing worse than adjusting some clips only to realize that nothing is changing because PT is not really playing back the pretty pictures that you are looking at! But it all works. Timing changes are usually best done in Melodyne. For me...

Steve

Ha yeah! The number of times I go to a mute a clip and then... d'oh!

Mixmaster Rick 12-03-2021 06:00 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
When using Freeze or Commit what is the impact if I use any Automation on the track?

Sardi 12-03-2021 06:24 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixmaster Rick (Post 2621216)
When using Freeze or Commit what is the impact if I use any Automation on the track?


Automation will be visible on the frozen track as its just rendering the audio in place.

Commit will print the automation onto the newly rendered file if you tick the boxes. Otherwise you can choose to not have the volume, pans, mutes etc. printed.

Have you tried either? A dialog box will pop up when you go to commit and you can see all this stuff pretty clearly.


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Mixmaster Rick 12-03-2021 06:41 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Thanks! I haven't tried either yet as I am in the middle of a project but I expect I'll try both out very soon.

albee1952 12-03-2021 07:24 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Extreme Mixing (Post 2621124)
There is nothing worse than adjusting some clips only to realize that nothing is changing because PT is not really playing back the pretty pictures that you are looking at! But it all works. Timing changes are usually best done in Melodyne. For me...

Steve

:p:p:pOh yeah, done that a few times! As much as I love Clip Gain, if I am doing Melodyne editing, I often adjust gains right in Melodyne, but I can't say that either method is better. Timing in Melodyne is a nice bonus and also gets plenty of use here.

macmuse 12-05-2021 06:31 PM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
In terms of going back to revise the original track, is it easier to bounce it to another track versus using commit? That way you just revise the midi track and bounce again.

I wish they implemented what Studio one does with their “transform track” which allows you to transform the midi to audio; you can continue to edit and revise the resultant audio, and when you go back to the MIDI, all your subsequent audio edits are reflected in the updated MIDI.

Stephen Bond 12-06-2021 05:46 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixmaster Rick (Post 2620558)
I'm running Pro Tools 2021.10.0 and haven't ever used the Track Commit or Freeze options. Can you explain the differences between them and give me real world examples of the benefits of each? Are there any Cons in using either?

It partly depends on what you care freezing/committing and why?

MIDI tracks I tend to leave uncommitted as I am working on the arrangement. You can edit MIDI notes/transpose far better with MIDI and of course change or layer the sound easily.

Same thinking for guitar tracks with virtual amps. You can pick up the same guitar, add extra parts and such months later and get the same tone if needed.

For audio, I use Elastic Audio quite a lot and I tend to leave this uncommitted for the same reason. There always seems an extra edit or tweak required along the way!

I used Freeze when it came out but didn't find it didn't work well for me. That said, I gave it a spin earlier this year and it seemed to work as advertised. The Commit function I use instead, but normally keep the original tracks inactive and hidden just in case.

For archiving, you'll want to consolidate and commit the audio for future retrevial. There's probably a good chance some plugins might not make it into the future so good to print it just in case.

Much of the need to freeze or commit for reasons of saving on the CPU will disappear as the CPUs get more and more powerful.

Stephen

midnightrambler 12-07-2021 03:38 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
I have a memory of freezing a track on a session when the feature was first introduced, taking it to another studio, "unfreezing" and losing both the plug-in settings and the "frozen" audio. At least with "commit" the audio isn't going to just disappear in a puff of smoke.

Mark Ziebarth 12-07-2021 03:49 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
In my personal use „commit“ is the better „freeze“…[emoji12]

JFreak 12-07-2021 06:19 AM

Re: Freeze vs Commit
 
Two different purposes. When you are not yet one with your VI track, you freeze it while working for something else. Once it is done, you commit to your track. It is also making a mental note for you that it is done and not to be touched again, unless there is something serious to fix.


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