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-   -   A Strange Problem (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=417201)

BasilF 09-27-2021 10:11 PM

A Strange Problem
 
Let's say that I create a tune. I work on it. I open up a different track to work things out and then bounce it to the main track. What has started to happen is that the bounced track is three 8th notes behind. Adjusting it is no problem but there's more. In the secondary track, if I bounce it to another track and then bounce that one to the main tune, there is no issue. It shows as being on the 1. I've been using PT since 2005. This is a new one. Any ideas?

Ben Jenssen 09-27-2021 11:34 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BasilF (Post 2614684)
Let's say that I create a tune. I work on it. I open up a different track to work things out and then bounce it to the main track. What has started to happen is that the bounced track is three 8th notes behind. Adjusting it is no problem but there's more. In the secondary track, if I bounce it to another track and then bounce that one to the main tune, there is no issue. It shows as being on the 1. I've been using PT since 2005. This is a new one. Any ideas?

I find this very difficult to understand. It might be because of the way you use the word 'track'. Outside PT 'track' is often used for a song; a track on an album. In PT a track is a instrument, midi, audio, or aux track in a session. also; "bounce into the main tune", what do you mean. Could you clarify please?

BasilF 09-28-2021 09:21 AM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Thanks for responding. Yea, "track" is confusing. You boot PT. You create a new project. We'll call it project A. You work on it. There may be something that you want to work out, like a solo or orchestration. For that, you create another project. In that one, when I bounce to the original project, it's off by three 8th notes. Yet, in the secondary project, if I bounce it to another track and then bounce THAT track to the original project, it's perfectly aligned on the 1.

JFreak 09-28-2021 09:32 AM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Track is something that has a fader in a mix window. Session is something that has one or more tracks. Project is a session that is stored in the cloud.

Ben Jenssen 09-28-2021 09:33 AM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BasilF (Post 2614712)
Thanks for responding. Yea, "track" is confusing. You boot PT. You create a new project. We'll call it project A. You work on it. There may be something that you want to work out, like a solo or orchestration. For that, you create another project. In that one, when I bounce to the original project, it's off by three 8th notes. Yet, in the secondary project, if I bounce it to another track and then bounce THAT track to the original project, it's perfectly aligned on the 1.

OK.
Are you careful that you select exactly the region that you want to bounce, in both bounce procedures? If you are, I'm out of ideas.

(Actually the term 'project' is also a bit of a problem. Of course we all work on projects all the time, but for those who are using Pro Tools First, it could be a cause for confusion, because: Avid, in their wisdom, decided that they would call the two different types of sessions that PTF can have, is called 'project' - it is stored in the cloud, and 'session' - that is stored on your harddisk.)

Robruce 09-28-2021 08:39 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2614714)
Track is something that has a fader in a mix window. .... snip


Hmmm... check page 217 of the PT 2019 manual.

"Track" and "channel" are almost interchangeable terms, that's why there is some confusion.

This might be a more precise definition;

A "channel," or channel strip is the thing with the fader, it routes incoming and recorded audio and MIDI to and from a "track".

A channel strip also controls an Aux or Master fader instance.

A "track" is the audio or MIDI itself.

JFreak 09-28-2021 09:03 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
"Channel" is mono input or output. "Channel Strip" is just a marketing name for analog console equivalent of putting EQ and dynamics processing into single plugin.

"Track" also comes from analog world, from the days of us dinosaurs when we recorded audio to magnetic audio tape, thus one "channel" was recorded into a "track" of magnetic data.

Robruce 09-28-2021 09:06 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2614769)
"Channel" is mono input or output. "Channel Strip" is just a marketing name for analog console equivalent of putting EQ and dynamics processing into single plugin.

"Track" also comes from analog world, from the days of us dinosaurs when we recorded audio to magnetic audio tape, thus one "channel" was recorded into a "track" of magnetic data.

Exactly. The track is the data, the channel is the path.

JFreak 09-28-2021 09:07 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robruce (Post 2614771)
Exactly. The track is the data, the channel is the path.

Yes, but my oversimplification of "something that has fader" is the representation of the data. Once you have done recording, you can disable the "channel", as in no input to your track.

Robruce 09-28-2021 09:14 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2614772)
Yes, but my oversimplification of "something that has fader" is the representation of the data. Once you have done recording, you can disable the "channel", as in no input to your track.

Hence the confusion.

JFreak 09-28-2021 09:21 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
No confusion once you think about it a minute. Analog days will teach you. Consider that "channel" is signal flow and "track" is what has fader.

Now a longer explanation.

Back in the days of analog consoles and magnetic tape, the signal flow was pretty often unchanged from session to session. Meaning that preamp one went to magnetic tape track one, was routed back to fader one, and this all was called "channel" which fed buss or output.

Sometimes you wanted to use something more fancy to -say- lead vocal track, so you took your favourite preamp and connected it to the signal flow, which in PT is done simply by choosing different input instead of hardwiring your setup again. As you can see, in normal situation (no external preamps) the preamp one would have been hardwired to fader one.

So, again, "channel" is about signal flow and "track" is the fader that controls what you have.

i do not care if you shout "hey the kick channel is not working" to your tech or "the kick track is suddenly empty" or whatever, but this is the difference of the two concepts. Sometimes the "channel" is more complicated than internal wiring of console preamp to console fader, but maybe you can at least agree that "channel strip" is anything between inputting the track and sending the output to a buss or output.

Robruce 09-28-2021 10:28 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
[QUOTE=JFreak;2614774]
Quote:

No confusion once you think about it a minute. Analog days will teach you. Consider that "channel" is signal flow and "track" is what has fader.
Having worked at A&M, Capitol, Sound Labs, Cherokee, Caribou studios in the golden age of 24 track recording, you probably are lecturing the wrong person about the 'analog days'.

A track is whatever was going to or coming from tape, not the fader.
A channel is the path through the board which is what PT represents with ..... a fader.

Quote:

Now a longer explanation.
Not needed. Please read page 217, and find some hobby other than the DUC.

JFreak 09-28-2021 10:31 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robruce (Post 2614776)
A channel is the path through the board which is what PT represents with ..... a fader.

Yes, that is what I have tried to explain about the so called confusion. Channel is about signal flow, track is tanglible data and control. You seem to agree, but still somehow insist that track and channel are confusing concepts. Track stays intact even when you change channel (signal flow).

Robruce 09-28-2021 10:49 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2614777)
Yes, that is what I have tried to explain about the so called confusion. Channel is about signal flow, track is tanglible data and control. You seem to agree, but still somehow insist that track and channel are confusing concepts. Track stays intact even when you change channel (signal flow).

Because they ARE confusing concepts to some people. Like the OP, and you evidently.

Look, when suddenly a signal path failed, the tech would pull the CHANNEL from the board, not a 'track'.

When we needed to bounce, we bounced 'tracks', not channels.

So when you spank people back to the analog days, stick to the correct terminology of the era.

In the mean time RTFM. Did I mention Pg. 217 ?

JFreak 09-28-2021 10:58 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
No reason to argue further. When you hit command-shift N on mixer window, does it open New Track dialog or New Channel dialog?

A track is a track you control. A channel is signal flow. Yes on analog console if you pull fader one out of the console, you are affecting signal flow, so it is a channel even though what you have in hand is a fader module.

Robruce 09-28-2021 11:03 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2614781)
No reason to argue further. When you hit command-shift N on mixer window, does it open New Track dialog or New Channel dialog?

A track is a track you control. A channel is signal flow. Yes on analog console if you pull fader one out of the console, you are affecting signal flow, so it is a channel even though what you have in hand is a fader module.


Ok, I give up. Hey...let's do an EP.

JFreak 09-28-2021 11:04 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robruce (Post 2614782)
Ok, I give up. Hey...let's do an EP.

Sure. Want to press it on virgin vinyl?

Robruce 09-28-2021 11:07 PM

Re: A Strange Problem
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JFreak (Post 2614783)
Sure. Want to press it on virgin vinyl?

With you, of course. I heard vinyl outsold CDs in NA last year.


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