Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

In 2021 I purchased two Macs: one for video, one for music, but due to workflow there is a little overlap. I currently run PT 2021.3 --- I had a bit of a major hassle several months ago which was finally resolved by giving Avid more money but in the process, I had a tech support person tell me that even though it says on paper that I should be able to update, to just stick with 2021 as long as I'm on macOS Catalina. I'm on 10.15.7 -- it's stable!

That said, my BlackMagic video equipment has a bunch of software updates and the minimum OS requires me to go to at least BigSur if I am to update. For a variety of reasons, I don't really want to....because I'm paranoid of complications due to basically a lack of time. Right now I am in-between projects so it's sort of now or not at all for another long time.

When I check the Avid page, it says about Big Sur: "Our testing has shown that certain configurations may result in a higher incidence of playback errors. This is particularly prevalent with older MacBook Pros" but it doesn't say what older even is. I'm on:

MacBook Pro, 2019
2.4 GHz 8-core i9
32GB 2667 MHz DDR4

I checked the release notes for 2022.7 and Avid still says the same thing pertaining to Big Sur/Monterey.

Short version -- what do smarter people than myself suggest? Stick with the status quo and be happy or take a chance getting miserable over an OS update?

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Short answer - I'm not pretending to adress everything here - Get your backups and disk images sorted, if you haven't already. If you have a disk image of your current bootdisk, then you can safely try out new configurations because it's so easy to restore it to how it was in less than an hour. Not difficult at all.

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

I just updated my mid-2015 rMBP kinda/sorta. I was doing two partitions, Mojave for PT Ultimate 2019.12 and Monterey for email, bills & such. I had just bought a perpetual Pro Tools Studio so I ended up going with macOS Catalina 10.15.7 because it's compatible with PT Studio 2022.7 and most of my VI libraries. Just because there are updates doesn't mean we need them, if your Blackmagic software does what you need then why update? If there are new features you need then by all means go for the update. My PT Ultimate is still alive and well on a Win 10 i9/64Gb/18Tb PC so I haven't lost anything going to PT Studio 2022.7 on the MacBook as it's for MIDI/songwriting/remote recording and that works fine as it stands. Anyhow good luck with your endeavor, I'm still installing VI libraries. I had to but an external 1TB NVMe drive to get all this crap on here.
:cool:

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Thanks. I have current backups and use Carbon Copy Cloner (but still on CCC5). That said (and I mention/ask this in case you have an answer or comment about it)....

I'll have to double-check to see if it is bootable, as I read that starting in Big Sur (which obviously I'm still not to yet), CCC has no guarantee of an external bootable device (https://bombich.com/kb/ccc6/cloning-...ftware-restore) In any event, I definitely have a current clone of the entire drive and system folders/hierarchy.....I suppose I'll have to find out if it's bootable and/or contains the OS.

Is a Disk Image the same thing as a bootable backup???

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Thanks. As to your question, realistically, I probably don't need the updates. I regularly develop a little too much anxiety than I'm going to fall way too far behind and thus must rush to catch up and make sure I'm current *enough.* In reality, what has at least spooked me away from embarking on an OS update for the time being is that I found this thread. If you're on 10.15.7 too and things are running smoothly, then that is yet another indication to me that Catalina seems to be working well for people (myself included). The number of posts in the thread I found about all kinds of problems arising from an OS "update" have sort of scared me off...at least for the time being! -- https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?...ghlight=BigSur

To complicate matters I'm paying for perpetual support every year but currently spooked into staying behind so I don't know, time will tell. But no need to rush into this either way

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

I'm not completely clear about what you have - you say you have two machines, but only list one. Are they both 2019 MBP's? Do they both have Catalina?

What you run should partly depend on what you want to do, where you store personal and valuable data and whether you need to transfer work between one and the other.

I have a Mac Pro 7.1 running Catalina and an MBP M1 Max running Monterey.
I like being able to boot the 7.1 from an external cloned disk which you can only do with Catalina. But due to the age of the OS, I don't store any personal or financial data on that machine. I keep my M1 up to date with the latest version of Monterey because I use it for banking and it has lots of personal data on it. I do music on both, use the same version of PT and Reaper on both, and only Logic gives me problems with different versions on each, which is hard to fix. Carbon and RME work on both.

I only upgrade one at a time (true for both OS and PT) - leaving it at least a month before touching the other one.

Not sure if that helps, just a reflection of my approach.

Dominic

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Thanks for the reply and feedback. To clarify, I have two machines but only run Pro Tools on one, which is the computer I listed the specs for. They are both 2019 MBPs. They are both Intel models. They both have Catalina 10.15.7.

The difference is that one has a more powerful GPU and is reserved for video editing, Davinci Resolve, etc. The other MBP is my quote/unquote "studio computer." The overlap is that in order to livestream from that "Studio Computer," (Skype lessons, livestreams, etc), I use another piece of BlackMagic hardware. But there's no actual video processing/Resolve work going on with the basement "studio" computer. Turns out that I can't update the software controller for the video switcher I use downstairs without updating the Mac OS X. Which is how I got to this question and rumination.

It has come to my attention that it is possible to create a separate volume within the disk container and update the OS on that, as a way to audition an update without wiping the previous one out. Having said that, does anyone here have advice on doing that or not, as it pertains to a fresh install. I've done in-situ updates before but never a fresh install. Obviously I'd like to avoid a catastrophe at all costs. Which leads to questioning how Big Sur or Monterey are doing for other PT users. This is the conundrum. Things are stable right now. I'd rather PT be stable and tell BlackMagic Design to buzz off than to update any OS for a non PT item and then, as Walter Sobchak says, end up in a world of pain with buggy UI/graphics or playback issues. As Walter resolves to finish his coffee, in that case and if that's the issue, then I resolve to stay on Catalina and refrain from cursing in a family restaurant (I do one day need to digitize those Autobahn masters though).

Frankly, the Avid page itself sort of spooked me unto itself:

"Pro Tools Big Sur/Monterey Notes:
Our testing has shown that certain configurations may result in a higher incidence of playback errors. This is particularly prevalent with older MacBook Pros."

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

I don't think 2019 counts as 'older' in this context. It's the very latest Intel Macbook Pro.

I'm not sure what else you need to know. You have two virtually identical machines which will both run Catalina, Big Sur and Monterey. An ideal situation to play with one, and still have a backup machine if something goes wrong.
No one can tell you what will happen, but there are working and qualified versions of all three OS versions with multiple versions of PT.

I personally don't think much of Big Sur and would jump straight from Catalina to Monterey if you're going to change. But there are plenty of people on this board using Big Sur successfully.

Make sure you have a backup. Make sure you have a backup of the backup.
You can use CCC to make a bootable external clone of your entire boot disk, and resort to running off that if you make a mess of your internal disk.

Dominic

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Thanks Dominic. I have a plan now that has not yet been implemented. I'll probably try jumping to Monterey. Because I keep both computers separate/fully independent of one another I'm not going to start messing around with using the other as a PT computer but after half a week of research, study and prep, I'm going to haul the drive enclosure with the NVMe SSD over TB3 connection down to the basement, install the new OS onto it, and take it for a trial run. Or else create a separate volume in the disk container on the computer itself to install the other OS to (one or the other but probably using the external drive).

Once things are confirmed I'll do a clean OS install to the Mac. This should accomplish what I want and reduce/eliminate the (irrational) stress that I've always suffered through prior to any OS change. Thanks for the advice.

Sean

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Due to basically starting over anyhow I went ahead and installed Monterey, updated to 12.5, clean install and importing my 100Gb iTunes library to Music in order to make sure I got all my audio drivers working within the OS. That's an Antelope Audio Zen+ for the time being which is a TB2 device. Downloading all the PT 2022.7 stuff now and it's a bunch. If I run into any issues I'll report back. I'm on mid-2015 Retina MacBook Pro with i7/512Gb flash/16Gb ram, last compatible MacPro qualified for Monterey. I actually had been running Monterey on a small partition for email, surfing & such with no issues.

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Thank you. I was on the same mid-2015 Retina for a long time too, and just did a fresh install of Monterey on it. That computer was retired a little while ago but I kept it, and long story short, it's not with me at the moment, but maybe when I get it back I'll put Big Sur or Monterey on it and see how it does with Pro Tools before I make a commitment to update the current recording computer's OS. Spent a week getting backups automated and learning a bunch I didn't know before about Macs, etc. To be continued whenever I make the switch

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

I am currently running the same machine as the OP (2019 MBP i9) with Catalina.
Latest version of Ultimate and a Avid Carbon. I have been holding off for fear of loosing/breaking something in the update to OS11/12. The only thing that I feel left out with is not being able to run the latest version of Logic and FCP. I have since transitioned from FCP to DaVinci and for the first time in about 30 years I'm not up to date with Logic (Been running Logic/Notator since the days of the Atari-ST).
The system is rock solid and does everything I need it to do. But I have a bad case of FOMO :rolleyes:

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

You are missing nothing except security improvements.
There is Sidecar, but it doesn't work very well - I wouldn't want to use it while doing anything important.
More emojis. A different typeface. Notifications are slightly different. Icons in the menu bar are slightly different......

I use both, and really don't care which is which.

Dominic

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Here's the current Pro Tools Low Roar demo session running at 64 buffer on that 2015 rMBP:


https://i.imgur.com/FoMe4du.png

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Thanks for this. To add another layer to the discussion while keeping my reply really short, your post and image gives me hope! I was seriously wondering what I was going to do at all with my mid-2015 rMBP (identical specs as yours) with so little monetary value remaining but not wanting to see it go to the landfill. It had the battery issue that Apple issued the recall on, so I just received it back with a completely new/replaced top case, keyboard, trackpad, and battery. Still trade-in value is $200 with Apple and $215 with OWC, both to be expected. I switched over leaving Mojave on the 2015 but since I never updated to the TB3 card in my UA stuff (and was using adapters), maybe the easiest thing in the world I could do would be to install Big Sur or even Monterey on my old rMBP and use it as my test guinea pig.

On another note, monetary value means nothing if something is functional. I upgraded computers when I started getting into video but for Pro Tools, I'm not running live tracking sessions nor using huge amounts of plugins or VIs and don't use sample libraries. Pretty much I record myself and, at most, program drums. There may yet be more Pro Tools life in the 2015 machine!!

Thanks very much for your input.

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

I held out as long as I could too (and have still lagged behind, currently remaining on Catalina on the system I began this thread about), and only reluctantly and begrudgingly went to Big Sur this week on the video computer, only because min. system requirements for DaVinci 18 require it (that, and updating the camera software). I may sound like an old man but I just do not like the UI of Big Sur and loathe that it feels and looks like a phone. Someone told me Monterey takes that direction even further. It was such a pain, at one point in the process, I literally had the thought "there are only so many operating systems I will have to update within my lifetime." It's always a huge amount of stress for me and the ever-shifting min. system requirements to stay current eventually force me into it, but perhaps at some point I will just stop and elect to embrace staying behind as technology moves on. I get that for many people it is easy and even looked forward to. To be fair, certainly my personal bias shapes my (probably unreasonable) feeling and (admittedly a bit negative) outlook about it. Fractals and Kempers still aren't vintage tweed or JMI-era AC-30s, Geeshie Wiley and Charley Patton didn't use computers, and Larry Carlton played the Kid Charlemagne solos onto tape during a day's work in the studio. But of course the world moved on. We have so much more now, and so much less of it moves me at all. That's my bias and what certainly makes me sound like an old man, but I don't care, when I read a good Steve Lukather rant, I never feel alone for however flawed I am for it. Jimi didn't need the latest macOS!!!!

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Haha no worries I'm an old man too lol.
So I just got a request from a client to do a session in Logic 10.7.x for composition then transfer to Protools for mix. So I might have to do the upgrade anyway. Now my biggest question is do I go BigSur (minimum to run Logic 10.7) or just go straight to Monterey !?

MBP 2019 i9 10.15.7, Avid Carbon,Protools Ultimate, Logic 10.6.x

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Take this with a huge grain of salt because I am not a computer expert like other people certainly are on the forums so I can't really offer any advice of meaning for which way you should go or not. My requirement to go to Big Sur was video-based on a second machine. Nothing broke. I didn't have any nightmares or horror stories. Probably should have/could have done a clean install but in in the end took the path of least resistance. And when I finally got onto Big Sur....I didn't like it as much. It immediately felt more like iOS down to the "Do Not Disturb" mode on the pull-down menu. I posted something about that on BlackMagic Design forums and heard back that Monterey continues the trend to feel even more iOS-like. That said, I'm sure I'll get used to it.

Re: Advice On Mac OS update from 10.15.7 --- or not
 

Since posting last I had a situation where I needed to run Cubase Pro 9.5 to exchange a session with a guitarist friend in Nashville. I tried Cubase Pro 9.5 on Monterey and it sucked monkey nutz big time so I bought an external NVMe to USB 3.0 adapter and a cheap 500Gb NVMe drive to install Mojave on, worked like a champ. Might be an option to retain an older MacOS for software compatibility.