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-   -   PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=58307)

pcvsmac 11-24-2000 03:30 PM

PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
I'm researching as much as I can before deciding which system to buy, PC or Mac. Here's what I've gathered so far from reading these boards, and perusing Pricewatch. Please feel free to add any experience or details I have not found. I'm going to cross post this to the Mac board, as well, so everyone from both sides can share their knowledge.

-PC-
Motherboard
The BX133-RAID appears to be the best choice among motherboards, as it has the Intel 440BX chipset, supports up to 1GIG of PC133 RAM, and has the ability to hook up two or more ATA/DMA-100 hard drives to its RAID controller, virtually eliminating the need for SCSI and the high price tag associated with it (wow, what a sentence). It is currently $112 on Pricewatch.

Processor
How much performance is really gained by having 200 more MHz? The price difference between the 1GHz and the 800Mhz is currently $270. Is it worth the extra cost?
Pentium III 1GHz - $449
Pentium III 933MHz - $320
Pentium III 866MHz - $227
Pentium III 800MHz - $179

RAM
This is a somewhat tricky area, in that the quality of the RAM can make a real difference in system stability. The BX133-RAID supports up to 256MB PC133 RAM in each slot. Here are the lowest prices for good quality PC133 RAM that I could find.
128MB - $97
256MB - $198

Hard Drives
ATA/DMA-100 7200RPM Hard Drive costs.
-Western Digital
WD200BB 20GB - $114
WD400BB 40GB - $158
-Maxtor
52049H3 20GB - $110
54098H6 40GB - $179

Dual Monitor Video Card
The Matrox Millenium Dual Head Cards
G400 ... 16MB - $74 ... 32MB - $102
G450 ... 16MB - $83 ... 32MB - $146
The G450 has faster DDR RAM, but I doubt it is necessary.

Other Stuff
Decent case prices vary from $35-$75
CD-RW drives 8W/4RW/32R around $111
Floppy $8

-Total System Costs-
BX133-RAID ........ $112
PIII 800MHz ....... $179
256MB PC133 RAM ... $198
WD200BB-Win98SE ... $114
2x WD200BB-Audio .. $228
G400 32MB Card .... $102
CD-RW ............. $111
Case & Floppy ..... $80
-------------------------
Total Cost ........ $1124
Upgrade to 1GHz ... $ 270
to 512MB RAM ..... $ 198
to 2x40GB Audio .. $ 88
to G450 32MB ..... $ 34
-------------------------
Upgraded Cost ..... $1714

So, for a good PC system, you're looking at
anywhere from $1100-$1700. Add your keyboard and mouse for around $15-$50.

-Macintosh-
Your base stripped down G4 system from Apple is configured as follows for $1549:
400 MHz G4 Processor
64 MB RAM
20 GB ATA 5400 RPM
DVD-ROM
RAGE 128 PRO 16MB Video Card
Keyboard and mouse

Processor
Dual 450MHz - $600
Dual 500MHz - $900

RAM
RAM prices from Apple are expensive, for a 256MB base, instead of 64MB, it's $450 more.
From Pricewatch I got these much lower prices:
128MB - $99
256MB - $199
512MB - $599

SCSI Controller
Looking at the Digi001 compatability pages, I see that the Apple bought SCSI controller isn't supported. There are two supported controllers, one by Atto, one by Adaptec.
ATTO Express PCI Dual Ultra Wide - $309
Adaptec HBA 2906 - $40
Something seems strange about the large difference in the prices, so if anyone knows why, please post why.

Hard Drives
For the OS, you can upgrade to the ATA 30GB 7400 drive from Apple for $150.
For the audio drives, the cheapest prices I could find on Pricewatch are as follows (all drives are 10000 RPM U160).
WD 18GB - $270
Seagate 18GB - $308
Seagate 36GB - $599

Dual Monitor Video Cards
Reading on the Digi001 compatability pages again, I see that the only dual monitor card supported is the Appian Jeronimo 2000 Macintosh, which costs a whopping $715.

Other Stuff
Imation SuperDisk - $98
Regular Floppy - $8

-Total System Costs-
Base 400 G4 system ....... $1549
Add 128MB RAM for 196MB .. $ 99
SCSI Controller .......... $ 40
18GB 10000RPM U160 SCSI .. $ 270
--------------------------------
Total Cost ............... $1958
Upgrade to Dual 450MHz ... $ 600
to 30GB ATA 7400RPM ..... $ 150
to 320MB RAM ............ $ 100
--------------------------------
Level 1 Upgrade Cost ..... $2808
Upgrade to Dual 500MHz ... $ 300
to 576MB RAM ............ $ 400
to 36GB U160 SCSI ....... $ 329
to Dual Monitor Card .... $ 715
--------------------------------
Level 2 Upgrade Cost ..... $4552

Upgraded PC Cost ...... $1714
Comparable Mac* Cost .. $3732
----------------------------
Difference in price ... $2018

*Comparable Mac is Dual 500MHz with 320MB RAM, 36GB SCSI, Dual Monitor, and keeps the 20GB ATA 5400RPM drive.

http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/shocked.gif Zoinks! Note these costs do not include monitors, nor the Digi001 package.

So, it's obvious that the PC wins the price game by over $2000. That's quite a bit.

What about features and performance? I've read here that the Macintosh has more plug-ins and supports more effects at once, and also that it is more stable than PC (though many PC users say their systems are stable). Also, with the upcoming OS X dual processor support, the Macintosh performance could go up quite a bit.

But are the extra plug-ins and possibly more stable performance worth $2000?

I'm interested in all comments regarding this subject.

Thanks!

dendee 11-24-2000 03:56 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
As time goes by, plug-ins for pc will increase because it is a large lucrative market. Performance reviews for Pentium 4 should start appearing soon, as they are available now!!!:-)

marcelloz 11-25-2000 08:46 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Also, if you are not looking for the top configurations or if you have less money to spare, my $500 emachine i466 with 160MB of ram works truely great with the 001.Looks like the deal with the 001 is more a matter of compatibility rather than quality of the host PC.

Good luck


dawpro 11-25-2000 03:35 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
You said it all in a nutshell!!!!

you forgot tax ,shipping, warranties, return policy and there ability to ship you the right product. When I first got into system building I took this route for my first sweet setup heres what happened.

1.The company I got the drives from sent me some other guy's order by mistake and it took me three weeks for them to get it right.

2.The burner I ordered was a different model listed as a 2564/2564i and of course I got the version that was a box in spanish and manuals in spanish.

3.The drives I ordered were ata-66 instead of ata-100 like I wanted

4.The CPU I ordered once was DOA dead on arrival and it took me six weeks for them to get me a new one.

Total system cost the same as above
plus shipping wich at avereage is about %10 to the price listed. They charge you for two day air and then ship it ground but do not tell you until you check the tracking number out.

Total time to get your system parts????

who knows any thing could happen 2 weeks? 2 months? will you even get the right parts?

Did all the parts work when I got them?

Nope some did not work at all and I had to delay further to get them.

If you are a expert system builder and have seen the parts you want in action and know they perform perfect for the Digi-001 then by all means roll the dice.

But I am warning you , one of these things will happen to you with one of these parts.

When you do finaly get it going you face getting it to work with the digi-001, and when it doesn't you will be stuck.

It is so much better to spend a couple extra bones and go with a company that specializes in the design of custom computers for music.

You will be bypassing all of the above nightmares wich have happened to hundreds of thousands of "Pricewatchers"

There is a reason a company charges a little bit more for a product and here it is.

1.Full warranty
2.Full tech Support
3.New not (refurbished parts)
4.System configuration
5.Ability to trouble shoot with you for audio issues

The Digi-001 is fussy very fussy, and with out the right parts and knowledge of a system from a ground up level, you will be introuble unless you want to do hours and hours of research trouble shooting.

Saving money means nothing when your stuck with a DEA error message after blowing 1700 dollars and taking hours of your time to build it yourself.

Make it easy go with the system I got from a good company that builds systems for the Digi-001 and other Cards.

After adding up the price above it is about the same for there setups.

http://drastiksolutions.11net.com

garuda_x 11-25-2000 05:12 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
this is not a real price comparison. you can add another video card for a 100-200 bucks...yo dont need the jeronimo card. scsi isnt really neccessary either. you can plug a couple of ibm gxp 75's and be fast enough to rock and roll. there you go. thats all. oh, and ram. i think that 512 MB of ram is about $450 for it.... and lets not forget that apple is giving rebates for the dual 450's and 500's i tihk that you get $300 and $500 respectively.

a dual 450g4 with 64mb of ram the 30gb drive, dvd, and the radeon graphics card is $1,949. add tax and i think shipping is free from the apple store. now add a single 256mb stick for $180 or a single 512MB stick of ram and you are golden. oh yeah, lets add a big drive for our audio. a 30 gig drive would do fine, an ibm 7200rpm ide drive is $150, or a bigger one, they go up to 75gb, for $4xx give or take. or maybe the maxtor drives...those are fine as well, but i usually go with the ibm drives.... there you go, lemme get the palm pilot and add it all up.... i'll guestimate and place it @ $2699 for a dual 450 with a 20 gig sys drive, 576MB ram, dvd, a radeon graphics card, another ati orion card, and a 40 gig drive for audio.... and it comes with a key and mouse. a really cool keyboard, but you might wanna buy a kensington pro mouse, or a ms trackball or something...or a wacom tablet.... but those are usb and universal...right?

well, they you go. that is pretty much what i would built. since you are building a machine just for pro tools.....you dont need to wait for the plugs to become available....they are here now. the machine is buf enough to do video, 3d, 2d, pro tools...(although if you are doing serious 3d, you want maya on mt or irix) and blah blah blah..... people say tings like "plan for the future" and crap like that. if you are in production you buy as good as what is available for your budget now and use it. i currently have my 001 running on a windows machine, but will move it to a mac as soon as i am financially able to. there are little things you come to like when you use both. i like the mac layout a bit more. no need to drag the app window across both monitors and reset all of you window positions.... when i go to a shop with pt on mac it always feels good. whatever, people like thier sonic foundry things and like thier games or whatever.... i use the 001 on my windows box and just live with my f*ed up screen redraws and my misplaced window options..... you deal with it.... but the ovewhelming majority of users of pro tools are on the mac. thats it.

foreigndog 11-26-2000 09:11 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
There are a few custom audio PC builders out there that come real close to the prices that
are being shown here. I can only tell all of you that I have had not one problem with my custom built system. I am so glad I did so, because it is a breeze when you're not worrying about system configs. Some of these builders will even beat the self built systems I'm sure. If you have the money and don't want the headache, I highly recommend having one built custom. I personally know that Justin and Drastiksolutions build them, as well as the people who built mine, Chris and the folks over at Wave Digital. I can't say enough about them, I have a great system, trouble free.

Canteenboy 11-27-2000 01:31 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
I appreciate all the time you took puting this comparison together. I just had one question: I am familiar with the Raid board and have also considered it as a good alternative to a SCSI drive, but doesn't the Raid board split ALL of your files between the two hard drives to gain speed? I'm wondering if this will cause any problems since Digi specifies that you should use a dedicated hard drive for you audio. It seems to me with the Raid board you would end up with parts of your OS and audio on BOTH of the hard drives, leaving room for error or crash. Please let me know if I am missing something here.

rdpete 11-27-2000 01:50 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
I agree with Canteenboy......

From what I understand, RAID still doesn't solve latency issues, since App & File are still being pulled from the same drive. Sounds like it defeats the sole purpose of having 2 drives to begin with.

pcvsmac 11-28-2000 12:26 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
In this RAID setup, App and File would not be on the same Drive. You'd put the App on the C Drive, which is the 20GB Hard Drive, and then you'd get 2 40GB Hard Drives and put those on the RAID array and use them as the audio drive only.

I may be misunderstanding how it works, but AFAIK, RAID drives have to be the same size, so the 20GB system/software drive wouldn't be included in the array.

When you say ProTools doesn't support Dual Monitors, does that mean it doesn't on the PC, either? I mean, can't you drag a window from one screen to another?

Now what about performance? I mean, there are PC users and Mac users out there, and they are happy with their systems, so the question may be moot, as it might just be personal preference.

All the talk is leading me to think a Mac would be the better choice overall, though. I'll just miss that right mouse button. http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif
I know there are Mac 2 button mice, but I've used them and they aren't exactly perfect.

gtrman 11-28-2000 02:27 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Speaking of plug-ins, What plug ins if any are currently available for the PC version?

rdpete 11-28-2000 03:53 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Justin@Drastik, the hardest working man in DAW's.... http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

What's up?



Digi9000000 12-01-2000 01:38 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Just from experience on hard drives, go with IBM. Their hard drive perfromance at 7200 RPM is better than anyone else, especially int heir new XGP model, and they go up to 75 gb. Stay away from Western Digital! I myself have lost two WD drives to all-out failures, and I know others who have had the same problems. In general, the product that IBM storage has been turning out in the last six months has been astounding. I have a 30 gb and 45 gb, and a 75 gb on order... and they're quiet for their speed and capacity.

JMS40 12-01-2000 09:30 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Digi9000000:
Stay away from Western Digital! I myself have lost two WD drives to all-out failures, and I know others who have had the same problems.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's funny(read "confusing")how we all have different expierences with the same gear... I've been using WD drives for years with great success. Their included software makes installation a breeze.


seiun 12-02-2000 04:59 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
I picked up a Dell 4100 this week. Cost me fourteen hundred bucks from their website. PIII, 866mHz, 256 megs of RAM, no idea what BIOS. Got a Digi 001 this morning, and I've been putting it through its paces all day. So far, no problems -- other than minor interface issues (you can tell the guys who wrote the GUI don't spend a lot of time in front of a PC -- things look a little ...odd... at times). But it runs great and sounds smoove, and that's what counts, right?

Gilbus 12-04-2000 10:18 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
"I grew up around PCs then bought a mac, used opcode and free midi in conjuction with one another, built a opcode picture of my studio and MIDI connections, clicked test studio, pushed some notes on my MIDI controller and my computer said to me "midi recieved""

...and then Opcode said "sorry, can't stay in business long enough to grow with you, good luck out there on your own"

Good thing Digi and MOTU are there to give you good, solid Mac based software and hardware to keep you going.

Photoshop, written expressly to take advantage of dual-CPU, is not a DAW. So far, only Cubase has written code to properly divy-up the CPUs. Every one else is playing catch-up until OS X comes out in January, then it's back to the drawing board.

Don't kid yourself - both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. Just because you've had bad experiences with PCs doesn't make PCs bad.

Even Apple went ATX in their motherboard design, and switched to IDE to save money. A G4 case allows for only a Zip drive - no CD-RW, no room for Kingston drive carriers or other expansion without going external, which for audio requires a SCSI card and external components, which is what keeps Glyph in business. Doesn't that then qualify as "custom"?

To label PC components "crap" is ludicrous in light of the fact that Apple uses ATI video cards (like many PCs), Maxtor IDE hard drives (like many PCs), Sony CD-ROM drives and CRTs (just like many PC companies, including Sony VAIO)

As for the 64-bit architecture, Motorola developed it, not Apple. And Intel has a 64 bit CPU in the works. OS X is based on Unix and NeXt, and is not truly an Apple innovation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on Apple. I'm typing ths on a PowerBook G3, which I also use as a powerful Pro Tools portable system w/ a Magma expansion chassis. I also have a killer rack-mount Pro Tools NT system running on Intel, and they both kick ass.

You really ought to open your mind to the possiblity that one solution does not work for everybody, and what's best for you might not neccessarily be best for someone else.

As for your comment about Drastik Solutions, remember that without snakes there would be no mongoose, and that competition benefits consumers - or did your buy your Mac at List Price from the Apple store?

-gil "mongoose" griffith
Wave Digital Systems


onemanband 12-05-2000 12:50 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Pc vs mac - what a novel idea. It seems we have reached the apex of our creativity with this thread. Do a search on pc -vs - mac and read for the next 2 weeks why Ford is better than Chevy. Dogs are better than cats. Chocolate is better than vanilla. Blues is better than rock and Captain Kirk is better than Spock. Give me a freaking break and beam me up Scotty! No intelligent life on this planet!

P.S. My computer is faster than your computer and my dad can kick your dad's ass. BTW if you're getting a mac PTLE doesnt benefit from the dual processor.

WestPhillySoulzition 12-05-2000 01:09 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Personally
i would buy a mac, this is what macs are made for, i am sorry but PC's have 32 bit architecture, macs have 64, this makes everything faster, they are more expensive, I was looking around a PC's for my 001 for almost six monthes I looked at Drastic pup waveaudio, all that custom expensive crap, I have seen many of these costume cumputers fall apart, six monthes and I ended up with a mac and I am so much amped on having it, I used to hate macs, I grew up around PCs then bought a mac, used opcode and free midi in conjuction with one another, built a opcode picture of my studio and MIDI connections, clicked test studio, pushed some notes on my MIDI controller and my computer said to me "midi recieved". For art based uses a macintosh G4 400 mghz is identically as fast a a PC 1 gighrtz. this was clocked for an adobe photoshop function.
alright enough already,
ignore little snakes in the grass trying to make money on the DUC named drastikduck

mike connelly 12-05-2000 09:47 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
"Photoshop, written expressly to take advantage of dual-CPU, is not a DAW. So far, only Cubase has written code to properly divy-up the CPUs. Every one else is playing catch-up until OS X comes out in January, then it's back to the drawing board."

Not true. Emagic has MP optimization, as well as a number of the softsynth companies. From what I've seen of Logic benchmarks, you will get comparable plugins between a 500mhz G4 and a 1 gig pentium. But yes, Digi needs to get and gear and optimize for both MP and altivec.

And since when is a peripheral "custom" just because it's external?

Mike

Gilbus 12-05-2000 10:27 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
I stand corrected:

"Photoshop, written expressly to take advantage of dual-CPU, is not a DAW. So far, only Cubase *and Emagic* have written code to properly divy-up the CPUs. Every one else is playing catch-up until OS X comes out in January, then it's back to the drawing board."

>And since when is a peripheral "custom" just because it's external?

My point is that it can't be ordered as a "standard" item within the G4, because the G4 chassis' designers chose form over function. And Glyph gear is custom in that you can put it together six ways come Sunday - CD-RW/DLT/Kingston Carrier, or 2 Kingston, 1 CD-RW, 1 DLT, or what have you. It's not a standard configuration.

But I have the feeling that no matter what I have to share, you will take the contrary opinion.

So I'll just make it easy on you. I say:

"Black"

ciypprod 12-05-2000 02:12 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Got 001 on Pc. It works fine, then I found out all the plug-ins I wanted are not available. If I could go back I would get the mac. Plus I've heard they're more quiet. I know that eventually there will be pc versions of the plug-ins I was interested in however, I've always liked "now" more than "eventually"

Gilbus 12-05-2000 03:05 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
West Philly sez:

"They call these PCs custom and then charge you up the ***** for it."

If you compare Apples to Apples (forgive the pun), you'll see that all of us (Drastik, AudioComputing, SoundChaser, DAWG, Wave Dig) are competitively priced with Dell and Compaq workstations.

"Its all the same parts as any other comps, check specification on DIGI web, build it yourself, dont pay someone else hundreds of dollars to do something you can learn on the web"

Well, yes - you can go and buy the components and build it yourself - but time is money, and many people are not comfortable putting PCs together. And of course, there is no after-sale support if you build your own, because you are on your own.

It's really about the relationship and the pre- and post-sale experience. That's what Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Nordstrom and Rolex are REALLY selling. If you're comfortable building your own computer and investing the time to learn all the tips and tricks and tweaks, more power to you.

You could also go out and buy a guitar body, pickups, bridge, tuning pegs, and a neck along with some stain or paint and build your own guitar, and some people do. Others, though, prefer buying a guitar that feels right for them and meets their need and is all set up and plays RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX.

So please - don't go slagging off hard working people who are trying to make a living just because you've got an opinion.

-NorthJerzeyMuzikPCSoulution

aka Gil from Wave Digital

WestPhillySoulzition 12-06-2000 01:57 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
I was not saying PCs equipement is crap, I was saying that custom built PCs, are crap because, I have seen then just stop working completely on multiple occasions. They call these pCs custom and then charge you up the ***** for it. Its all the same parts as any other comps, check specification on DIGI web, build it yourself, dont pay someone else hundreds of dollars to do something you can learn on the web. Also, this photoshop app. was run on a single processor, it is a unbiased anology to show how fast Macs crunch numbers. I am a copsci major at one of the biggest comp schools in the states, digital audio is not as different as you think. I am also very happy that you brought up the linux thing because the only draw back to macs is its OS, just because mac didnt design icould care less. When Linux comes into play, which it will with 0sx, and when Digi takes advantage of dual processors and linux based system, which it also will, These systems will be comparably as powerfull as TDM with # of plugins. I do all of my programing on unix, and if you have ever used it you will realize what i mean. PCs are dope, there is sick software like acid, and many others, I use one with my mac. If you are more comfortable with PCs buy one, just dont get a custom built one.
All i was saying is that in my opinion for future applications you will be better off with a mac, also all pluggins are written first for mac, all PT users who want to bring their songs to a TDM studio must have a mac. But you can do many diferent things with a PC.

studio09 12-08-2000 12:16 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gilbus:
[B]"I grew up around PCs then bought a mac,

The Only Question I Have is when will Pro Tools Free be able to go pass the 8 Track Limit and Use Bomb Factory Plugins
and be Untied to Specific Hardware

Gilbus 12-08-2000 08:52 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
"The Only Question I Have is when will Pro Tools Free be able to go pass the 8 Track Limit and Use Bomb Factory Plugins
and be Untied to Specific Hardware"

I would think the answer would be: 'Never'

It's free for a reason - too many features, and it cuts into sales PT LE/001. I doubt Digidesign would shoot themselves in the foot.

-gil



BCBud 12-08-2000 05:16 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
I think people who buy PC's from Dell, Gateway, and the like are fools. Here in Vancouver there are at least 50 small computer companies that will build a PC to your spec for about half the price of "chain" company or a department store PC.
Of course, if you wanted Office 2000 and a years worth of crap internet access included, Gateway is the way to go.
And most have at least a one year warranty if not a two year warranty. And If it did crap out you don't have to mail it to Butt F*ck Idaho, you just take it in to the store. I bought a loaded PII400 a year and a half ago for $1100, I have not had one problem with it. I am upgrading shortly, and I will definetly go for another system that is built localy.

ernesto 12-08-2000 07:35 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Oh my pecious neophyte.realise the truth.
a 450 mhz g4 is faster than a 1000 mhz pentium 3. a 5oo mhz g4 is faster than a 1000 mhz athlon. and a dual processor g4 just makes anything in the pc realm look silly.When the 1000mhz macs come out theyll be twicw as fast as 1000 mhz p.cs.As far as price goes a pc is to m mac like a ford is to a mercedes.

Any time you kids wanna go pro go to the apple store

apple.com

ernesto

ernesto 12-08-2000 07:39 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Oh my pecious neophyte.realise the truth.
a 450 mhz g4 is faster than a 1000 mhz pentium 3. a 5oo mhz g4 is faster than a 1000 mhz athlon. and a dual processor g4 just makes anything in the pc realm look silly.When the 1000mhz macs come out theyll be twicw as fast as 1000 mhz p.cs.As far as price goes a pc is to m mac like a ford is to a mercedes.

Any time you kids wanna go pro go to the apple store

apple.com

ernesto

yavuzj 12-08-2000 10:28 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Hi Ernesto,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ernesto:
Oh my pecious neophyte.realise the truth.
a 450 mhz g4 is faster than a 1000 mhz pentium 3<snip>

Any time you kids wanna go pro go to the apple store

apple.com

ernesto
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the childish comment. However if you want the real truth check out here. There is a real test that was done between mac and PC users.
http://www.digitalnaturalsound.com/logic_dsp/perf.htm

Go and check out only if you want to know the real truth and cry.

and email me. I will direct you to the right direction for configuring a PC.



------------------
Yavuz AKYAZICI
Guitar Player
Composer

ernesto 12-09-2000 05:21 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
That was awful childish of me.But, most pro facilities use macs cause they have a good reputation.I use macs cause i like them and an evenly clocked mac is much more powerful than its p.c. counterpart.If motorola could just get those 1ghz g4s rolling out....theres already a 3rd party 1ghz mac.P.c' are a better value.There is a beauty though to the unity of conception of a mac.To me it boils down to a p.c. is like phillips vodka, a mac is like grey goose.a p.c. will get you there but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth and a whole in the stomach. perhaps of beos was supported and intel or amd adopted risc architecture id use a p.c. instead i prefer to create my art on a work of art(mac).
p.s. my mac never crashes, installation is plug and play,windows is a cheap imitation of mac os,and os 10 should make windows look silly.

an athlon is tempting though my friend...

ernesto 12-09-2000 05:23 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
That was awful childish of me.But, most pro facilities use macs cause they have a good reputation.I use macs cause i like them and an evenly clocked mac is much more powerful than its p.c. counterpart.If motorola could just get those 1ghz g4s rolling out....theres already a 3rd party 1ghz mac.P.c' are a better value.There is a beauty though to the unity of conception of a mac.To me it boils down to a p.c. is like phillips vodka, a mac is like grey goose.a p.c. will get you there but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth and a whole in the stomach. perhaps of beos was supported and intel or amd adopted risc architecture id use a p.c. instead i prefer to create my art on a work of art(mac).
p.s. my mac never crashes, installation is plug and play,windows is a cheap imitation of mac os,and os 10 should make windows look silly.

an athlon is tempting though my friend...

[This message has been edited by ernesto (edited December 10, 2000).]

GROS 12-09-2000 06:41 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Does anyone work anymore?

buy whatever fits your budget,and can do the "WORK" you want.

keep in mind folks,neither MAC or PC can mix your projects for you. i happen to have both.i have a big MIXPLUS system on my mac,and A DIGI 001 system on my PC. They both do what i want them to do quite well.

i look at it this way:

MAC and PC are both powerfull and effective weapons for those who know how to shoot straight.

Happy "Productions" folks.

yavuzj 12-09-2000 10:29 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Hi again Ernesto,

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ernesto:
To me it boils down to a p.c. is like phillips vodka, a mac is like grey goose.a p.c. will get you there but it leaves a bad taste in the mouth and a whole in the stomach.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See these are all subjective opinions. There are programs in PC world that leaves a great taste in your mouth. Any Sonic Foundry program will do that. They are PC only. I tried to use a G4 owned by a friend. I hated it. The mouse was incredibly slow. The file system as not fast as a PC either. It crashed three time while I was trying to record guitar tracks in to his Cubnase 4.1.

I am using Logic with my PC I remember working 2 days straight without turning my computer (even when I went to sleep I left it on)

It is only personal decisions.

Just keep working.

Happy Composing :-)

Regards



------------------
Yavuz AKYAZICI
Guitar Player
Composer

JMS40 12-09-2000 10:56 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
My 2 cents... I'm building a PC for Digi because of years of experience troubleshooting and working with that platform. I will not be surprised if I have a few bumps in the road because I will be pushing the recommended boundaries. But, I'm one of those types that actually enjoy the process... My point, I don't have that kind of experience with Mac so PC is the natural choice for me. I think it's unfair to portray PCers as idiots who simply can't see the light.

voxpitch 12-09-2000 07:26 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Hey pcvsmac..Can you tell me where you found those ATA-100 20 gigs for that price of $114 and $110? I am looking for exactly that but haven't found that good of prices yet..Thank you..-David

ernesto 12-10-2000 04:33 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
my mac is my tool. i like it cause it does what i want in impeccable style and power. a pc is also a tool if it does what you want then yipee.

garuda_x 12-11-2000 12:58 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
you are all insane.

_x

Grooberst 12-11-2000 01:23 AM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Just a little comment on the famous 'photoshop test' that seems to crop up all the time....

The average mac CPU has a larger 2nd level cache that can speed up operations requiring many calculations on the same small amount of data (like a photoshop blur). The average PC cpu has a smaller cache and does not.

Unfortunately, this cache is hard to manufacture, leading to large failure rates on the recent G4 cpus, and hence a higher price. Also, this cache quickly becomes clogged when running more than a few plugins as the computer starts to need larger transfers from the main memory than the cache can hold.

So, unless you really need photoshop, a PC will give better results for the same price.

The only problem is, Digidesign can't write for PCs for toffee, so all their ports are a little unreliable. They also only support the buggy win98 with the digi 001, a move that will do their reputation for reliability enourmous damage. Hopefully, this will change soon.


jpassar767 01-05-2001 11:45 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by seiun:
I picked up a Dell 4100 this week. Cost me fourteen hundred bucks from their website. PIII, 866mHz, 256 megs of RAM, no idea what BIOS. Got a Digi 001 this morning, and I've been putting it through its paces all day. So far, no problems -- other than minor interface issues (you can tell the guys who wrote the GUI don't spend a lot of time in front of a PC -- things look a little ...odd... at times). But it runs great and sounds smoove, and that's what counts, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


jpassar767 01-05-2001 11:50 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by seiun:
I picked up a Dell 4100 this week. Cost me fourteen hundred bucks from their website. PIII, 866mHz, 256 megs of RAM, no idea what BIOS. Got a Digi 001 this morning, and I've been putting it through its paces all day. So far, no problems -- other than minor interface issues (you can tell the guys who wrote the GUI don't spend a lot of time in front of a PC -- things look a little ...odd... at times). But it runs great and sounds smoove, and that's what counts, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im thinking of picking up your exact system...NOw that you've had time to play around with it, would you recommend the 4100 series? I was thinking of having a system bui;t by Drastik Solutions but I dont think they include the monitor and that would price me out of the area I wanted to spend.
The errors that you got were a hassle? How did you overcome them? Please respond

John P.


loopmusic 01-05-2001 11:51 PM

Re: PC - vs - Mac -- A Breakdown For Everyone
 
Can you *hear* the difference?

Not me. Maybe I suck...

[PC]


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