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-   -   003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1 (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=418434)

003user 01-03-2022 03:08 PM

003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Hello

My DIGI003 rack seems to have an issue.

On Input 1, when I engange record enable / monitor input (in the software) I hear a clicking sound and a very low inaudible signal comes through. I can see this signal in pro tools / logic / ableton in the mixer: constant signal at minus 6db. I can modulate the signal with an EQ plugin.

When I enable / disable HPF on the front of the 003, I hear the same clicking sound. The HPF cuts the signal drastically.

External sound from hardware sampler comes through the DI input. Albeit a bit lower in volume than channel 2, 3 and 4.

Disconnecting / connecting a jack doesnt change this behavior.

I also hear the same clicking sound when I press play in Logic 9 when the input monitor is ON.

What could be the problem? By the looks of it, it appears to be a digital error.

Thank you.

Darryl Ramm 01-03-2022 03:33 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Welcome to DUC.

Well your 003 is broken. The clicking is electrical relays. The 003 is not worth paying somebody to repair, even if you could find somebody who wanted to to that. Unless you are an electronics hobbyist, and if so I'd expect you would already be in there doing that.

So either live without that input if the others are working OK, or buy another used 003, or buy a more modern interface. If you describe what you need, connectivity options to the computer etc. folks here can make suggestions.

Ben Jenssen 01-03-2022 03:38 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Hi. Welcome to the forum.
Sounds very much like it's on its last legs.
So, the noise is there whether or not anything is plugged in?
Does changing the input on the front make any difference?
Can you describe the clicking in more detail?

003user 01-03-2022 04:00 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
1 Attachment(s)
It clicks on both DI and XLR input. The connected cable does not matter. The clicking is always there.

Clicking noise description:

PLOP

The thing is that the input is still working (converter converts voltage into numbers). And when the input gets activated in the software or when pressing HPF, it clicks once. And then a constant inaudible signal goes into the software (or the software generates it?). This is a digital signal almost for sure, not an "analog buzz" like from a bad cable. I cannot hear the signal (with headphones), I only noticed because the meter in the mixer showed me. I can modulate it with an EQ and then sometimes I can hear it, depending how much I boost it. It sounds like a sinewave gets modulated by another one when I wiggle with the EQ (low freq booster). Sounds like a bassy FM synth, very digital. I should actually sample it, because it's a very cool sound

Attached is a screenshot of the signals frequency:

003user 01-03-2022 04:24 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2624405)
Welcome to DUC.

Well your 003 is broken. The clicking is electrical relays. The 003 is not worth paying somebody to repair, even if you could find somebody who wanted to to that. Unless you are an electronics hobbyist, and if so I'd expect you would already be in there doing that.

So either live without that input if the others are working OK, or buy another used 003, or buy a more modern interface. If you describe what you need, connectivity options to the computer etc. folks here can make suggestions.


Hi Thanks Darryl.

I'm not a hobbyist but I don't mind fixing problems. I don't know what a relay is exactly but it looks like a tiny thing you pull out and replace by another one.

I don't need a modern interface as I am still using OSX 10.6.8. This is the most reliable operating system and it's been with me since release. I have a newer Mac system but I don't really like it.

So options are another 003, Fireface 800 / 400 or Multiface 2. I don't see me using anything else. I also have an mBox 2 Pro which works great, and so I can still use PT8.

Ideally I fix the relay. If it's the relay which is causing the problem

albee1952 01-04-2022 09:37 AM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
There is probably some kind of IC chip for each preamp and #1 is probably gone bad. I would also not bother spending money on repairs. If you can live without 1 channel, then just tape over #1 and move on. If you are not using the digital inputs, you could put them into service for more inputs. On a budget, the ART Digital MPA on the SPDIF input would be a solid performer(easily equal or better than the 003 preamps). Still in budget land, the Behringer ADA8200 on the lightpipe input is also as good or better than the 003(both these options would be $300 or less on the used market). Both of those units could still be useful with many newer interfaces(and someday soon, you may NEED to upgrade the interface anyway, even if not right now):o I am selling a Presonus Studio 1810c right now as I stepped up to HDN. PM me if you are interested:D

JFreak 01-04-2022 09:43 AM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Hi, welcome to the community.

There are two easy self help repairs to try.

First one: buy a new firewire cable. It sounds to me that it is a clocking problem, and as it also seems to happen with internal clock (without digital devices connected, try it if you alredy didn't) then most likey culprit is faulty firewire cable.

Second one: open it and reseat the power harness. You will se a Y-shaped multi-wire power connector that has about inch wide plastic ends. Take it out, clean the contacts with industrial alcohol, juggle a little and put it back just like it was. Then try again.

Darryl Ramm 01-04-2022 09:53 AM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
^^^ clocking problems won’t affect just one analog input. So it won’t be the FireWire cable. The power harness might be worth a try,… esp. if it feeds each analog input circuit separately-but does it-would be a bit surprising. Still may be worth opening up for a look/try. Sometimes problems will be obvious with hot or heat damaged components, etc.

JFreak 01-04-2022 09:56 AM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
If the internal clock is "broken" it may affect different channels differently, but should have click in sync with all channels. Trying a new FW cable is still the easiest troubleshooting, I myself would try that before opening the box.

But sure, 00x family is infamous of the power harness issue, so if the cable change does not help that is a pretty good guess if you ask me.

albee1952 01-04-2022 01:19 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
The dreaded power harness issue was really for the 002. The 003 line was not known for that issue. I owned 2 003 mixers and 4 003 rack units and none ever had a similar issue(but both my 002 mixer and 002 rack did). Still, the OP has nothing to lose by reseating the harness connections(do each connection at least 5-6 times so if there is oxidation, doing the reseat several times has the best chance of scraping thru any buildup). I'm not sure if each channel has relays, but they might(for switching between mic/line or HPF in/out), so if you find relays(and they are indeed socketed), swap between 2 channels to see if the problem moves. That would indicate a bad relay and replacements are probably available from Mouser or Digikey, or maybe an Avid-approved service location like allproelectronics.com(out of Nashville).;)

Re moving to a new(er) interface, consider a few things; newer stuff is likely to sound better, firewire is rapidly going the way of floppy drives and the 003 could find itself a non-runner with some upcoming PT release:o

JFreak 01-04-2022 01:24 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
I still think the problem is with internal clock, which means bad FW cable or bad seating. FW socket may get loose over time, so gently pinch the edges inwards (not much, but just half a millimeter that the plug gets good connection).

Clocking issues appear as periodical clicks so there seems to be clocking issue somewhere. I am assuming for troubleshooting purposes this 003 has no other cables connected except power, firewire, and the one signal that is being trialed.

albee1952 01-05-2022 07:51 AM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Re the clicking, we really need to know more about it. Is it in the audio(clocking or failing chip) Or, are you hearing it from within the 003(most likely a relay). From my own(limited) experience, clocking issues affect all the channels that use the clock(and clicking is in the audio and on the track):o

JFreak 01-05-2022 08:05 AM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Yes, if it is a clocking issue it should show everywhere when you do this simple test:

- create a new session
- hit default to your system setup
- add 18 mono audio tracks to your session
- make sure all of them get discrete inputs from analog 1-8, adat 9-16, spdif 17-18
- route them to your monitoring output
- record enable and hit record
- record for a minute and take a look at the waveforms in the edit window

You should see spikes in regular intervals on every track at the same position. Height of the spike does not matter, nor does it matter whether your dummy session is recording silence or something more useful. For testing purposes silence is better and spikes more visible.

Darryl Ramm 01-05-2022 12:10 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Very first post described the clicking sound associated with engaging the HPF.. it's likely the relay on the audio input board.

Trivial tests for somebody handy with electronics. Confirm that channel relay is clicking (there are a ton of relays in these boxes). Check power supply voltages. Try to swap the input/output cables on that input channel with another channel. The channels have multiple electrolytic caps, which well don't last forever so that's an early electronic thing to always exclude, and if so then check other caps you might end up wanting to recap the whole box... or maybe just buy a new interface. All pretty obvious stuff to anybody in electronics. Or just don't use that channel...

003user 01-05-2022 12:53 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Hello

Thanks for all the suggestions. Nice to read everybody is trying to figure out this problem with me.

To avoid confusion; the click I hear in the audio output. It’s not a relay that’s poppin’ like when it boots up. Speaking of which, it boots up normally after two clicks (2 or 3 clicks), together with the front lights. You know, normal boot sequence.

I tried 3 different firewire cables and all available FW400 ports. First thing I tried before posting the initial post. All give the same problem.
I also opened up the 003 and reseated all connection I think are related to input 1 (it is printed on the PCB’s).
Also looked for bulging or cracked caps, but everything seems clean. Inside it’s a very clean house. No spider webs or dust or anything.

I looked for “relays” (after googling pictures) and cannot find any.

Next to the single click, there is also a very low frequency signal coming through in the mixer on input 1. Constant signal at -6db (I posted pics earlier).

Hopefully I can pin-point the issue and fix it.

Darryl Ramm 01-05-2022 01:13 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
So it may not be a relay at all.

BTW the relays will look like this.. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/...C2-5NU/4291118 (likely the actual part number).

But a quick test if you are inside it already is swap the channel cables to/from the input board and see if the problem moves to another channel. IIRC output channels may be pairs on a connector input channels singular. But you can try combinations that make sense.

Electrolytics can die without bulging or leaking, the real way to tell is with a capacitance and ESR (equivalent resistance) meter, often disconnecting the cap first. Or by looking at signal or power supply that is not being filtered properly because the cap is not working... best with a oscilloscope but sometimes you can use a multimeter to measure the AC voltage ripple vs DC voltages esp. on a power supply rail filtered by these caps. All these 003 are of age where electrolytic caps failing becomes an issue, those damn things cause so many problems in so many electronics as they age.

These boxes also have so many connections, and they can suffer from corrosion or loose connection pins, which is what Janne was after you reseating stuff and sounds like you tried.

003user 01-11-2022 02:26 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
1 Attachment(s)
No update yet on the input.

But there is another issue. Not sure if its user error.

I connected a Fostex VC-8 to ADAT in on the 003, and I only get sound when I sync pro tools to the Fostex. If I set Pro Tools to internal clock, the Fostex doesnt lock to it.
When I send audio to the fostex, it does work: fostex will sync to the pro tools clock.

It should work (pro tools set to internal clock) as described in the following image:

Darryl Ramm 01-11-2022 02:41 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
We cannot guess what you are doing. How *exactly* have you got stuff connected so a clock can get to the Fostek? Word clock from the 003? Optical? What format optical? Tested with other BNC cables? If using wordclock have you got a 75 ohm cable and 75 ohm terminators at each end? (yes you can get away with junk for short runs, but better not to).

Sounds like you are not using wordclock and that may be worth trying.

003user 01-11-2022 02:52 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Oh sorry. Details:

ADAT optical cable from Fostex out to 003 in. 8 channels over ADAT.

Everything in both directions is working except when trying to sync the Fostex to the internal clock in PT (fostex out to 003 in), I get no sound or no sound and pops. In this direction it only works when syncing PT (slave) to the clock of the Fostex (master). If I turn PT into the master, it doesn’t work.

Darryl Ramm 01-11-2022 03:04 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 003user (Post 2625181)
Oh sorry. Details:

ADAT optical cable from Fostex out to 003 in. 8 channels over ADAT.

Everything in both directions is working except when trying to sync the Fostex to the internal clock in PT (fostex out to 003 in), I get no sound or no sound and pops. In this direction it only works when syncing PT (slave) to the clock of the Fostex (master). If I turn PT into the master, it doesn’t work.

You mean you simultaneously have two TOSLINK cables, one for each direction?

003user 01-11-2022 03:08 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
No. I tried both directions and when piping audio from the Fostex into the 003 over optical ADAT, I cannot sync the Fostex to the clock of the 003. ;) It does sync properly (PT master, Fostex slave) when piping audio from 003 to fostex.

Only 1 optical cable is connected.

I tried the ADAT loop test on the 003, and I get no sound either

Darryl Ramm 01-11-2022 03:10 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Yes but of course this won't work. You need a TOSLINK cable from the 003 to the Fostex box for the clock and another TOSLINK cable from the Fostex box to the 003 for the signal. Or arguably better get all your stuff connected by Wordclock.

003user 01-11-2022 03:16 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Oh
Oh my…
Thanks. It works now :-)

So you recommend a wordclock cable for syncing and an ADAT cable for audio signal?

As you can see, I never used ADAT before. Thanks for understanding!

Darryl Ramm 01-11-2022 03:20 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 003user (Post 2625185)
Oh
Oh my…
Thanks. It works now :-)

So you recommend a wordclock cable for syncing and an ADAT cable for audio signal?

I just like knowing everything is connected over wordclock, it makes setting up larger configs easier. It's possibly a better clock signal in some cases, but that's not the first reason I would use it. I doubt you will ever hear any difference between which box is providing the clock in your setup.

003user 01-11-2022 03:29 PM

Re: 003r clicking sound and unwanted signal on input 1
 
I think it will become quite a puzzle if I’d set it all up with wordclock cables. I have two Akai’s, mbox 2 pro, 003 and fostex with wordclock connections.

If I get the mbox slaved properly to the 003 with spdif cables and I get no pops and issues, I’m good ;-) The Akai samplers I have connected with jacks.

Thank you very much for your assistance


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