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-   -   LFE - Theatrical Release (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=416425)

finalmixaudio 07-29-2021 06:42 PM

LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Hello all!

I recently finished mixing a feature film in 5.1 for broadcast/streaming, but client also asked for a theatrical version, so I delivered a theatrical "level" mix since there was no budget to take it to a proper dubbing stage. Yesterday we went to see the film in a private screening at a large theater and it general sounded great, but it was definitely missing the sub frequencies, it felt like the sub wasn't there. When I mix 5.1 I send to the LFE just what I want to enhance with more low end, rumble etc, not everything of course...

So my question to you guys is... in a theatrical release mix do you have to send more to the LFE channel?? doesn't the bass management of the theater or any surround system already take care of that?

I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing anything here, since I was very surprised with the missing sub frequencies.

Thanks in advance

JCBigler 07-29-2021 08:08 PM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
I'm not a film and TV mixing guy, but I've mixed several thousand live performances in a variety of rooms and systems.

My first question would be what the systems look like that you are working on? What's your mixing studio speaker set up and how big is the room? And how big is the theatre room and sound system that you listened on?

The size of the room and the particular system will greatly affect the final mix. Maybe the theatre that you listened on had a slightly undersized sub for the room compared to what you were mixing on in your studio?

dr sound 07-29-2021 08:58 PM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by finalmixaudio (Post 2609226)
Hello all!

So my question to you guys is... in a theatrical release mix do you have to send more to the LFE channel?? doesn't the bass management of the theater or any surround system already take care of that?

I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing anything here, since I was very surprised with the missing sub frequencies.

Thanks in advance

There is no bass management in a 5.1 Theatrical Film.
If it isn't sent to the LFE you won't hear anything out of the LFE.

finalmixaudio 07-29-2021 09:16 PM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCBigler (Post 2609231)
I'm not a film and TV mixing guy, but I've mixed several thousand live performances in a variety of rooms and systems.

My first question would be what the systems look like that you are working on? What's your mixing studio speaker set up and how big is the room? And how big is the theatre room and sound system that you listened on?

The size of the room and the particular system will greatly affect the final mix. Maybe the theatre that you listened on had a slightly undersized sub for the room compared to what you were mixing on in your studio?



Thanks for the reply, but I think Marty got it down below.

finalmixaudio 07-29-2021 09:20 PM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr sound (Post 2609232)
There is no bass management in a 5.1 Theatrical Film.
If it isn't sent to the LFE you won't hear anything out of the LFE.



I had the misconception that theatrical used bass management. Thanks a lot for that!

dr sound 07-29-2021 09:30 PM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Bass management is used for Immersive Mixes ( Atmos / DTSX).
It is used for the surrounds only not the mains.
Bass Management is used for IMAX . There is no dedicated LFE in a IMAX Mix.
Everything below 72 HZ is bass managed to the subs.

FYI LOTS of Theaters have very poor subs in them. They get stolen since they are down on the floor and used for guys Cars

its2loud 07-29-2021 10:23 PM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dr sound (Post 2609235)
Bass management is used for Immersive Mixes ( Atmos / DTSX).
It is used for the surrounds only not the mains.
Bass Management is used for IMAX . There is no dedicated LFE in a IMAX Mix.
Everything below 72 HZ is bass managed to the subs.

FYI LOTS of Theaters have very poor subs in them. They get stolen since they are down on the floor and used for guys Cars

. That’s funny! Those would be some seriously weighed down trunks.

garret 07-30-2021 02:42 AM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
A lot of times the subs in cinemas are deliberately set low to not disturb the adajacent screen. It's a bit of a crapshoot. Best to only use it for additional flavour and make sure the mix works without it.
The other thing to note is if you mixed in a smaller room and not a large dub stage then most likely you thought the lfe channel was loud enough but due to the bass build up that happens in smaller rooms it doesn't equate to what you will hear in a large room.

dr sound 07-30-2021 05:38 AM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garret (Post 2609240)
a lot of times the subs in cinemas are deliberately set low to not disturb the adajacent screen. It's a bit of a crapshoot. Best to only use it for additional flavour and make sure the mix works without it.
The other thing to note is if you mixed in a smaller room and not a large dub stage then most likely you thought the lfe channel was loud enough but due to the bass build up that happens in smaller rooms it doesn't equate to what you will hear in a large room.

Exactly!

Cheesehead 08-01-2021 10:02 AM

Re: LFE - Theatrical Release
 
Just a thought, are you using any low frequency enhancement in your mixes?
It's not enough most times to just send some tracks to the sub, you need to be using plugins like Lowender, Waves Lo Air, Avid Pro Subharmonic or even an old DBX 120 box on the LFE channel or even across the LCR in some situations to get your low end to sound cinematic.
Be careful with it though, like all good things it's easily overdone.



Sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs. :-)


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