Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community (https://duc.avid.com/index.php)
-   Pro Tools (https://duc.avid.com/forumdisplay.php?f=162)
-   -   Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing. (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=418657)

DJ Hellfire 01-20-2022 03:09 PM

Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
So I recently converted my UAD setup from FW on a 5,1 to TB3 on a 7,1. Now I've been having nothing but instability with using UAD plugins in Pro Tools. I've done all the usual troubleshooting; replaced TB3 cables, reset UAD hardware, reinstall all software, trash Pro Tools prefs, etc.

The problem is when I'm running high DSP loads (say above 50-60%), I start getting -38 errors and Pro Tools freezes with spinning beach ball. The errors usually come randomly during playback or when duplicating/loading a UAD plugin. When it happens, Pro Tools completely freezes.

When I reopen Pro Tools after power cycling the UAD hardware, the session and all plugins will load, but none of the UAD plugins actually work in the session. The music plays but the UAD plugins are not processing the audio and none of the meters on any of the UAD plugins works and delay compensation of the audio is out of alignment. Native plugins work fine. In order to fix this, I have to reboot the entire computer every time this happens.

For months I thought this was a UAD hardware defect. But recently I found out that when this problem happens, my other audio applications (Console, Luna, Akai MPC) work perfectly fine with UAD plugins without rebooting the computer while along side them, the plugins will not run again in Pro Tools until a reboot is done. So this leads me to now believe that Pro Tools is the actual root of the problem.

So the question I actually have is what could possibly be the process running on MacOS associated with Pro Tools that requires being reset before UAD plugins will work again? I'm looking for a process that I can kill in Activity Monitor instead of repeatedly rebooting my system.

Mac Pro 7,1
Big Sur 11.6.2
Apollo Silver w/TB3 option
Octo Satellite TB3
Octo PCIE
UAD 9.15.1
Pro Tools 2021.12
Apple Pro TB3 Cable from Apollo to Mac
Apple TB3 Cable from Satellite to Apollo

(SB: I had my 5,1 with Thunder Ridge running this same UAD setup and still had the same issues prior to purchasing the 7,1).

s.d. finley 01-20-2022 03:21 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Very strange issue you have there. I use a MBP 2020 11.6.2 UAD Arrow TB3 UAD 9.14.7 and I can switch between DSP Quattro running AU versions of UAD plug ins to PT 2021.7 without having to reboot because of non functioning UAD plug ins. I can even use UA LUNA and switch to the other 2 DAWs without issues. You do have a variety of UAD devices in your system. Is the firmware up to date with them all? I recently updated a Silver Apollo FW to use with TB2 and had to do a couple firmware updates to get it to work right. Normally UAD software will pop up a dialogue box for firmware but not always. Other than that, PT version and UAD Software versions are different. Maybe downgrade PT to 2021.7?

climber 01-20-2022 03:35 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
that's strange... I have an Octo in a Sonnet housing running thru TB2 on my Trashcan running the latest Big Sur, and can load that sucker up with plugs and it has never done that.

DJ Hellfire 01-20-2022 04:27 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s.d. finley (Post 2626004)
Very strange issue you have there. I use a MBP 2020 11.6.2 UAD Arrow TB3 UAD 9.14.7 and I can switch between DSP Quattro running AU versions of UAD plug ins to PT 2021.7 without having to reboot because of non functioning UAD plug ins. I can even use UA LUNA and switch to the other 2 DAWs without issues. You do have a variety of UAD devices in your system. Is the firmware up to date with them all? I recently updated a Silver Apollo FW to use with TB2 and had to do a couple firmware updates to get it to work right. Normally UAD software will pop up a dialogue box for firmware but not always. Other than that, PT version and UAD Software versions are different. Maybe downgrade PT to 2021.7?

Yeah, all firmware is up to date as far as I know. There's no dialogs saying any updates are available.

BScout 01-20-2022 04:49 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Have a 7,1 16-core running 2 Oct Satellites (chained on one thunderbolt.) Zero issues.

But we run 10.15.7 on that. No chance of moving that to Big Sur or Monterey since they both have significant issues with lots of things.

And we max out the DSP.

SKI 01-20-2022 06:27 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Disassemble your system to try and pinpoint the culprit.
Test your system with just the PCIe card.
Test your system with just the Satellite.
Test your system with just the Apollo.


If you can successfully stress the system in each of those configurations try testing them in the various combinations of 2 to see if anything shows.


Some have experienced problems with UA setups containing variations of products because of the power up order of the devices, so that's something else to look into.

DJ Hellfire 01-20-2022 07:19 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SKI (Post 2626018)
Disassemble your system to try and pinpoint the culprit.
Test your system with just the PCIe card.
Test your system with just the Satellite.
Test your system with just the Apollo.


If you can successfully stress the system in each of those configurations try testing them in the various combinations of 2 to see if anything shows.


Some have experienced problems with UA setups containing variations of products because of the power up order of the devices, so that's something else to look into.

This is actually something I'm trying right now. I took the Satellite out of the equation and DSP maxed out with no issues so far. Sucks trying to do a mix with 8 less cores tho.

I heard about the power up issues with the satellite and Apollo and read that it's best to have the Satellite show up after the Apollo in the System Info pane. So I've been doing that. But I can't control where the PCIE card shows up in the order.

The strange part is when I had the FW Satellite in place of the TB Satellite, I didn't have these issues running with all 3 Satellite, PCIE, and Apollo. But something about the TB switch is causing the issues.

abc1mce2 01-20-2022 08:17 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Try removing the UAD2 PCI-e card and leaving all your other UA products attached and see if that helps. Sometimes particular PCI-e slots don't like to be populated with certain PCI-e cards. I had that problem with PT and a UAD2 card in slot # 4 on both the Windows and the Mac sides. It wasn't until November I Hackintoshed my mobo and I was still having issues (I had your issues before the Hack in Windows also). I removed the Quad PCI-e card in slot # 4 and PT has never run so smoothly in Windows before. To me PT runs a little better on macOS. Though now after removing that card from slot # 4 it's a close race and this is on the same computer...just different operating systems.

DJ Hellfire 01-20-2022 08:53 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by abc1mce2 (Post 2626023)
Try removing the UAD2 PCI-e card and leaving all your other UA products attached and see if that helps. Sometimes particular PCI-e slots don't like to be populated with certain PCI-e cards. I had that problem with PT and a UAD2 card in slot # 4 on both the Windows and the Mac sides. It wasn't until November I Hackintoshed my mobo and I was still having issues (I had your issues before the Hack in Windows also). I removed the Quad PCI-e card in slot # 4 and PT has never run so smoothly in Windows before. To me PT runs a little better on macOS. Though now after removing that card from slot # 4 it's a close race and this is on the same computer...just different operating systems.

Thanks. I'll gave it a try. Maybe I'll order another Satellite to try out.

abc1mce2 01-20-2022 09:51 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire (Post 2626026)
Thanks. I'll gave it a try. Maybe I'll order another Satellite to try out.

I'm still using 1 of my UAD2 PCI-e cards. I just removed the one that was in slot # 4 on my mobo. Since you only have one UAD2 card, remove it first, and if PT functions correctly after some testing, try moving it to a different PCI-e slot.

dominicperry 01-21-2022 01:47 AM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire (Post 2625999)

Mac Pro 7,1
Big Sur 11.6.2
Apollo Silver w/TB3 option
Octo Satellite TB3
Octo PCIE
UAD 9.15.1
Pro Tools 2021.12
Apple Pro TB3 Cable from Apollo to Mac
Apple TB3 Cable from Satellite to Apollo

You are running a different version of UAD software to the only other poster who has specified - s.d. finley is running 9.14.7

I would start there before you begin with hardware swaps.

It would also be helpful if other posters stipulated the exact version of MacOS, PT and UAD software they are running.

Dominic

DJ Hellfire 01-22-2022 08:42 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
So I think the problem might be the Satellite. Not sure if it's defective or if it's something software related. Yesterday I turned the Satellite off and mixed a song with just the Apollo and the PCIE Octo. Loaded the session up with UAD plugins and maxed out the DSP. Worked for hours with no issues. Session sat open overnight, no issues in the morning.

So then I remove the PCIE Octo and turned the Satellite back on and load the same session back up. Played it back a couple times, all was fine. Let the session sit and after about 7 or so hours I hear a loud ass vibration noise coming from my studio. I go in and it's the sound of a -38 error and Pro Tools freezing.

Is anyone able to read MacOS crash reports? Occasionally this -38 issue will cause my entire computer to crash after rebooting the Satellite. It just happened again. Here's the report from the Kernel Panic. Can anyone get an idea of what the problem may be from this?

Crash report: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uq33739jh5...-2022.rtf?dl=0

Darryl Ramm 01-22-2022 09:21 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
I doubt anybody here can get anything useful out of that crash report Something calling kernel spinlock routes and timed out waiting on a non maskable interrupt... does not help locate potential causes, and it's not clear the stack trace etc. you see is the actual thread causing issues. But all at least consistent with the possibility of a hardware problem. I would disconnect 8 everything you can... displays, soundgrid, external drives etc. and put back one UAD device at a time and try to test for stability... or just put the satellite back and test for more instability?

DJ Hellfire 01-23-2022 12:41 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
OK. So the Satellite is NOT the problem. I ordered another brand new Octo Satellite to try and just hooked it up and registered it, loaded a session with nearly 90% DSP and the -38 error happened within 5 minutes of playback. So the problem has to be with Pro Tools. I was thinking possibly a UAD plugin being the issue, but when the Satellites are taken out of the equation, the issue doesn't happen. And I'm not using the CL1B which does currently have a known bug causing -38 issues for other users.

So here's the different scenarios I've tried (all scenarios using PT 2021.12 and UAD 9.15 except where noted):

-Mac Pro 5,1, Mojave, Thunder Ridge TB3, Octo PCIe, Apollo SF TB3, Octo Satellite TB3 - Problem happens

-Mac Pro 5,1, Mojave, revert back to Apollo SF FW, Octo PCIe, Quad Satellite FW - No problem

-Mac Pro 5,1, Mojave, Thunder Ridge TB3, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe, Octo Satellite TB3, changed all TB3 cables - Problem happens

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe, Octo Satellite TB3 daisy chained to Apollo - Problem happens

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe, Octo Satellite TB3 connected directly to Mac - Problem happens

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe, Octo Satellite TB3, use Luna instead of Pro Tools - No problem

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe, Octo Satellite TB3, full uninstall reinstall Pro Tools 2021.12 - Problem happens

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe - No problem

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo Satellite TB3 - Problem happens

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe, Octo Satellite TB3, full uninstall and downgrade to UAD 9.14.7 - Problem happens

-Mac Pro 7,1, Big Sur, Apollo SF TB3, Octo PCIe, NEW Octo Satellite TB3 - Problem happens

Darryl Ramm 01-23-2022 12:51 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
So kernel panics stopped?

Grasping at straws, but try an SMC and PRAM/NVRAM reset on your Mac. yes this is the fancy version of trashing prefs for your Mac,... but it's surprising what hardware like things corruption in these can trigger. So just a good idea to try... and Apple and UAD support likely would have had you do that by now if you were troubleshooting with them.

If that doesn't fix things I think you need to get with a support org, I expect you might make faster progress with UAD support.

DJ Hellfire 01-23-2022 01:02 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2626291)
So kernel panics stopped?

Grasping at straws, but try an SMC and PRAM/NVRAM reset on your Mac. yes this is the fancy version of trashing prefs for your Mac,... but it's surprising what hardware like things corruption in these can trigger. So just a good idea to try... and Apple and UAD support likely would have had you do that by now if you were troubleshooting with them.

If that doesn't fix things I think you need to get with a support org, I expect you might make faster progress with UAD support.

Yeah, I've done those steps as well. Didn't help. Also deleted Cloud Collaboration and Avid Link and those didn't help either. I have a ticket open with UA but haven't heard back from them in over a month.

Darryl Ramm 01-23-2022 01:39 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Ugh. Can you bug them on their forum about the ticket? I thought there support was pretty good? -- my impression from other UAD owners.

DJ Hellfire 01-23-2022 01:45 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm (Post 2626299)
Ugh. Can you bug them on their forum about the ticket? I thought there support was pretty good? -- my impression from other UAD owners.

Yeah, I'm going to make a thread there.

DJ Hellfire 02-02-2022 03:06 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Update:

This actually turned out to not be a Pro Tools issue. I still don't know exactly what the problem is but I've been able to replicate it in other audio software. So it's definitely a UAD hardware/firmware issue of some sort related to the TB3 Satellites. I even purchased a second Satellite to see if my original one was defective but the issue exists in the brand new Satellite as well. When taking my Apollo and my Octo PCIe out of the equation the problem still happens. When I take the Satellites out of the equation, the problem goes away. But it's hard to believe two Satellites purchased 5 months apart are both faulty. So it must be a firmware issue.

s.d. finley 02-03-2022 03:42 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Hellfire (Post 2627117)
Update:

This actually turned out to not be a Pro Tools issue. I still don't know exactly what the problem is but I've been able to replicate it in other audio software. So it's definitely a UAD hardware/firmware issue of some sort related to the TB3 Satellites. I even purchased a second Satellite to see if my original one was defective but the issue exists in the brand new Satellite as well. When taking my Apollo and my Octo PCIe out of the equation the problem still happens. When I take the Satellites out of the equation, the problem goes away. But it's hard to believe two Satellites purchased 5 months apart are both faulty. So it must be a firmware issue.

https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/art...rmware-Updates

have you seen this article? You can grab the BINs and drop them on the UAD Meter to start the firmware update. The great thing about how UA implemented this is if you pick the wrong firmware for any of your devices it won't even load. But if it does load you must follow UAs instructions.

DJ Hellfire 02-08-2022 07:20 PM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by s.d. finley (Post 2627243)
https://help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/art...rmware-Updates

have you seen this article? You can grab the BINs and drop them on the UAD Meter to start the firmware update. The great thing about how UA implemented this is if you pick the wrong firmware for any of your devices it won't even load. But if it does load you must follow UAs instructions.

Nope. First time seeing it. I reinstalled the firmware for all my devices. I'm not confident it will make a difference since I believe these versions of the Satellite firmware is what the problem is.

skandalok 05-03-2022 05:52 AM

Re: Major instabilities with Pro Tools and UAD. -38 Errors and Pro Tools freezing.
 
Hi,

I have the same problem in another DAW. But my system works perfect if only onw of my two devices are connected. It only gives -38 error when using both. I am suspecting it to be my mac and how the TB3 ports are set up. Would love to try another mac. Have you tried that?


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:08 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com