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-   -   Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing... (https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=313040)

electricfiddle 12-03-2011 09:49 PM

Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
I want to use a Boomerang III in the effects loop of 11r. I am a multi-instrumentalist... Would the consistency of the loop be broken when I can change from my Guitar patch to my Violin patch? I want to be able to use the looper always on in the loop, and change patches without effecting what is "playing" in the loop on the Boomerang. If the loop changed or signal was broken then it wouldn't allow me to use a looper with this unit.

TieDyedDevil 12-04-2011 12:35 AM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
The loop is maintained by the Boomerang. Switching patches on the Eleven Rack will have no effect on the contents of the loop if the loop is patched in at the end of the signal chain.

There's a brief sound gap (60 milliseconds, IIRC) when changing patches. You'll probably want to avoid looping that gap. Just make sure the Boomerang isn't recording when you change patches on the Eleven Rack.

The Eleven Rack may also mute the FX loop (and thus the output of the Boomerang) during patch changes. I haven't tried it, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. The mute is brief, but may be noticed if you're playing a really dense loop.

If the patch-change mute turns out to be a problem, I'd suggest running the input of the Boomerang from one of the Eleven Rack's amp outputs. Then run the output of the Boomerang through your DI and into the board or your K12. That way the output of the Boomerang will be unaffected by the mute during patch changes. The only downside that that you'll need to adjust two levels to keep the Eleven Rack and the Boomerang balanced with respect to each other.

electricfiddle 12-04-2011 12:41 AM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil (Post 1874055)
The loop is maintained by the Boomerang. Switching patches on the Eleven Rack will have no effect on the contents of the loop if the loop is patched in at the end of the signal chain.

There's a brief sound gap (60 milliseconds, IIRC) when changing patches. You'll probably want to avoid looping that gap. Just make sure the Boomerang isn't recording when you change patches on the Eleven Rack.

The Eleven Rack may also mute the FX loop (and thus the output of the Boomerang) during patch changes. I haven't tried it, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. The mute is brief, but may be noticed if you're playing a really dense loop.

If the patch-change mute turns out to be a problem, I'd suggest running the input of the Boomerang from one of the Eleven Rack's amp outputs. Then run the output of the Boomerang through your DI and into the board or your K12. That way the output of the Boomerang will be unaffected by the mute during patch changes. The only downside that that you'll need to adjust two levels to keep the Eleven Rack and the Boomerang balanced with respect to each other.

That's what I wanted to do from the beginning... But the question on Impedance arose since the 11r's "output to amp" was not the right impedance for pedals or running to the qsc or radial. The question I have is would running the XLR out to 1/4" in on the pedal work? I would need a XLR to 1/4" cable... Would that then be the correct impedance? Thanks

TieDyedDevil 12-04-2011 12:46 AM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by electricfiddle (Post 1874057)
That's what I wanted to do from the beginning... But the question on Impedance arose since the 11r's "output to amp" was not the right impedance for pedals or running to the qsc or radial. The question I have is would running the XLR out to 1/4" in on the pedal work? I would need a XLR to 1/4" cable... Would that then be the correct impedance? Thanks

The output to amp jack provides a proper level and impedance for driving a guitar amp. Therefore it is also suited to driving a pedal.

You'll still need the direct box to drive a board from the output of the Boomerang. If you intend to drive the QSC directly from the Boomerang's output, that'll work just fine. Use an ordinary instrument cable. The QSC has combo jacks that'll accept either 1/4" or XLR plugs.

TieDyedDevil 12-04-2011 12:51 AM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
By the way, I left something out of my earlier description.

I'd assumed that you'd run an ER main output for the direct sound, and the Boomerang's output for *only* the looped sound. This requires muting the "through" signal on the Boomerang. If you have the version 2.1 Boomerand firmware, the instructions are on page 18 of the manual.

Alternatively, you could run everything through the Boomerang and not use the ER's main outputs at all.

Lot's of possibilities...

electricfiddle 12-04-2011 12:58 AM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
No, I was going to use the Boomerang as "always on" and there when I need it... Here is how I want to use the 11r...


Compressor>Octaver>Drives>Boost>Volumepedal>ELEVEN RACK>Delays>Mods>Verbs>Looper>Di>out

I would love to be able to use it JUST for amp and cab tones... If the 11r had a line out 1/4" we would be needing discussing this... Still not getting the impedance thing and why this won't work.

TieDyedDevil 12-04-2011 01:14 AM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
Sorry. Actually that *will* work.

This is a little different than what you'd described in your other post. If you were using *just* the Eleven Rack, I'd stand by my advice to use its main outs. XLRs are electrically quieter and physically more robust than 1/4" connectors.

But using the Eleven Rack in the middle of a chain of stompboxes... that's different. Use the ER's guitar input and its amp output. Those are a perfect match to stompboxes.

The only remaining issue has to do with where you're going from the Boomerang's output. You have several alternatives:

1) The `Rang can drive your K12 through a 1/4" cable; no problem with impedance or levels. If you need to go to a stage box for the house, use the K12's through output.

2) If you want to straight to a stage box (as you might in the even that the venue provides a monitor that you're willing to use), use your DI between the `Rang and the stage box.

3) You could also use your DI between the `Rang and the K12, but it doesn't really buy you anything.

electricfiddle 12-04-2011 02:12 AM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil (Post 1874066)
Sorry. Actually that *will* work.

This is a little different than what you'd described in your other post. If you were using *just* the Eleven Rack, I'd stand by my advice to use its main outs. XLRs are electrically quieter and physically more robust than 1/4" connectors.

But using the Eleven Rack in the middle of a chain of stompboxes... that's different. Use the ER's guitar input and its amp output. Those are a perfect match to stompboxes.

The only remaining issue has to do with where you're going from the Boomerang's output. You have several alternatives:

1) The `Rang can drive your K12 through a 1/4" cable; no problem with impedance or levels. If you need to go to a stage box for the house, use the K12's through output.

2) If you want to straight to a stage box (as you might in the even that the venue provides a monitor that you're willing to use), use your DI between the `Rang and the stage box.

3) You could also use your DI between the `Rang and the K12, but it doesn't really buy you anything.

Oh ok... But as a person who OBSESSIVE over sound, who buys a $530 telonics volume pedal because I notice a tone loss with other pedals, who notices differences in patch cables, and the smallest things no one cares about, if the XLR is that much quieter and robust than going amp out to pedals then I guess I have to run it this way... :)

electricfiddle 12-05-2011 08:46 PM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
Does anyone on this forum notice dropouts when you change patches with the Looper in the effects loop? Or does it keep a constant flow of audio with no dropouts when you change patches?

electricfiddle 12-11-2011 06:12 PM

Re: Looper in the Effects Loop (setup) questions. Patch Changing...
 
Anyone?


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