Which drum mic package?......or buy seperately?

[elwoodblues]

Hi all,

Musician's Friend has a bunch of package deals right now..The packages are called "Real World Series" and a few options are available..The one I am looking at includes Sennheiser E602 kickpack, Shure SM57 mic, 2 Oktava MC012 mics, 2 Audix D2 mics (wiht D-Vice mic clips), and cables. $699.00

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/sid=020508122208165189169047034021/search/g=live/detail/base_id/ 58488

(if link doesn't work, go to MF site and search for "real world series")

Does anyone out there have this setup or similar?

How do these mics sound together?
I am looking for a mean drum sound (lot's of attack and Ummmphhh!) for most of my stuff as well as a versatile package for recording other bands too.

Also, as far as the MC012 mics are concerned, do you think that they are a stereo pair with this package or just two thrown together? (Is there anybody competant enough at Musician's Friend to answer that?---IMO they are not that helpful)

Is there a difference between MC012 and MK012? (I have seen both labels with same picture of the mic)

Do you need those cap options (the more expensive model MC012--when bought seperately) for a good overhead sound?

Sorry for so many question in one post, but I am new to this all and am learning exponentially already thanks to the search function....not too much on this topic though cus the packages are fairly new I believe..

thanks
elwoodblues

[J. FO]

hey man. that package isn't bad. the 57 is a standard snare mic, and a lot of people use it on cabinets too. so that's a good one to have. audix makes good drum mics, and a lot of people here use those oktava's. plus, you get cables with it. so, it's a pretty good packaged deal. as far as getting the sound you want, you could spend dollar after dollar looking for the mics to do that. it's as much the engineering as it is the mics (probably more so). i'm sure that there is someone who can make a U47 sound bad. eq and compression, and mic placement are big keys to drum sounds.

[mattm]

that's not a bad package. i'd be inclined to try to persuade them to swap the Sennheiser E602 for an AKG D112 (i find the E602 a bit wooly and ill-defined) and i'm not a huge fan of anything Audix make except the OM5 for live vocals. their little drum mic's are a bit clicky up top and light on down the bottom end. it's really easy to overload them too but i can't think of anything better for the price, except the trusty ol' SM57 of course!

if i were trying to put together a budget drum mic pack, i'd probably suggest an AKG D112 for bass drum, Shure BETA 57 for snare, AKG C-418's for toms (Shure SM98's if the budget will stretch or trusty ol' Sennheiser MD421's) and the Oktava MC012's for overheads. you might want to consider an extra small diaphragm condensor to use as a hi-hat/ride/snare bottom mic too.

remember that buying more versatile mic's like SM57's and 421's will allow you to succesfully use them on much more than drums (i'm referring specifically to all the tom mic 'suggestions' above).

hope that helps some,

~matt

[jon sutton]

i bought that package from guitar center (same parent company) except they didn't have any octava's and i got rode nt3's instead. i also bought a second 57 (snare bottom) and an extra d2 (2nd rack tom). i ditched the 2nd tom and am now recording the e602 AND the d2 on the kick, which fu#@ing ROCKS! i am totally happy with what i am getting. i must say that the e602 doesn't get my desired sound. i don't know if mine is damaged or what but with the d2 i get a great combination of attack (d2) and boom (e602). the only thing more i could possibly want is to mic the hats as i am using both nt2's for overheads for stereo imaging. the only problem is that the hats would be a 9th line and then i am running two channels into one digi input. maybe i will combine the two toms soon but haven't yet.

bottom line: the 57 is a world class snare mic. the d2's are the next best thing to 421's (especially when you consider the drice cut). i have heard rave reviews on the oktava's. get another 57 for snare bottom and learn how to get better results with the e602 than i have and i swear you will be happy big time.

just remember that tuning is more important than good mics anyday.

[Sixpence]

I'm A big fan of the Sennheiser Pack....

I much prefer the sound of the 604's to the C418's. The 604 is fuller, with plenty of depth not to mention more robust. I know a lot of people missing mics from their rig due to damage.
The D112 is fairly standard, but it makes every kick drum sound the same.... If that's what you want though. The 602 as mattm has stated has more low end than the D112, I wouldn't call it wooly by a long way.... It has way more attack than the D112...

just my 0.02C € of course

[mattm]

i was going to mention that the 418's might not be a good idea if you work with drummers who's aim is not so hot. same could be said for the SM98's but i've soldered a severed head back onto an SM98 many a time and they continue to soldier on, as do most shure microphones.

point taken about the 'fullness' of the C418's but by my yard stick, they're the best you'll find for the money, hands down, offering a more balanced picture than either the audix or sennheiser alternatives. my standard tom mic choice is either a C414EB or a C451E/EB, if the right combination of capsule, pad and knuckle adapters are available. i've been known to use TLM170's too but they're not usually found in pairs or they've spent so long in front of a bass drum that they sound like shi^. it's quite rare for me to use a dynamic microphone on drums these days except maybe an M88.

obviously, a person looking at a $700 or so drum mic pack is not able to spend the money required for a 'deluxe' mic kit so i simply suggest things that i consider comperable to what i use. cheap sennheiser and audix microphones, in my opinion, are not.

~matt

[Phil O'Keefe]

I'm going to disagree with a few of you...

I have several of the mics in that package. The price is definitely fair for that combination of mics.

The Sennheiser kick mic wouldn't be my first (or even second) choice. I normally use a E/V RE20 (but that's too expensive for the package deal). The AKG D112 is well liked by some, but I'm not a huge fan. IMO, it's better than the Sennheiser, but not as good as a Audio Technica ATM25. I'd see if they'd sub the A/T in exchange for the Sennheiser.

The D2's are ROCKIN' mics for toms! "Overload easily"? Not in my experience. I've used them with Mike Cosgrove of Alien Ant Farm, and he hits pretty hard - they never broke up or distorted at all. I still prefer a Sennheiser MD421 on floor toms, but for rack toms, those things kick butt. If you want a cheaper floor tom alternative, a Audix D4 might be a good, inexpensive substitute. They don't "wow" me on kick (the original manufacturer's "suggested application"), but they do well on floor toms and bass cabinets. My only question for you is "how many toms are on your kit?" If two D2's are enough (4 pc kit - IOW, two toms total), then you're all set. If you use a 5 pc. kit, add a 421 or a D4 or even a A/T ATM25 for the floor tom.

The Oktava MC012 / MK012 (BTW, they're the exact same mic) are great little mics. IMO, they sound more like the (now discontinued) Neumann KM84 than the newer Neumann KM184's do. They're not as bright as the 184's. They make WONDERFUL acoustic guitar mics. These work great as snare mics too - but you have to use the inline pad. Try mic'ing the snare SHELL from the side instead of the top and / or bottom skin. Just be sure not to place the mic in line with one of the shell vent holes or the recording will give new meaning to the term "wind blast". images/icons/shocked.gif

Of course, a SM57 can work in this same application, and is a longtime "standard" for snare drum mic'ing. And they can work very well on guitar cabinets too.

IMO, with the exception of the kick drum mic, it's not a bad little collection at all. And the price is pretty reasonable considering they include cables and the D2 mic clips. The "normal" prices on the individual elements are usually around:

ATM25 = $150
D2's = $250 / pair (PLUS the cost of clips)
SM57 = $ 80
MC012 = $200 / pair

And your cables and clips... but you might be able to negotiate a better deal on everything if you haggle. Gtr Ctr will match MF's prices, and you might want to just go in to the local store, tell them the deal and have them match it with your substitions taken into account.

[kalle74]

to add more opinions...

I really don´t like AKG 418´s for toms as they have a bass rolloff starting at around 250Hz ( not steep, but anyway ) and a huge peak around 6k ( making them mucho clicky ). Plus, they´re flimsy, easily destroyed with a single misplaced hit. They´re OK for some high-pitched hand percussion like darbuka, pandeiro and smaller djembes. Wouldn´t suggest putting on anything that requires THUMP...

As far as overheads go, I´ve hardly heard a better budget mic than AKG 451. Few come close in detail, warmth and sense of 3D. So far, I haven´t had a chance to try the Oktavas, though I´ve heard a big buzz around ( hope to get the chance soon... ).

The proven champion of dynamic mics, IMO, on kick is the Sennheiser md421. Tighter than the rest, good attack and depth. The 602 is good also ( similar capsule design ), as is Shure b52. I personally don´t like the d112, because it lacks good attack to me.

Of course, every mic has a different sweet spot. To my ears, some mics ( b52, d112, 602 ) sound a lot better when placed nearer to the beater than others ( like d4 and md421 ), which I tend to place near the front head, or even outside the kick.

I think Audix D2´s rock on toms.

When speaking about budget drum mics, I feel compelled to exclude high-budget LDC´s, which of course are better.

[elwoodblues]

Thanks alot for the responses so far guys...

Does it matter if the Oktava's are a matched pair?

[elwoodblues]

bump. images/icons/smile.gif

[Phil O'Keefe]

You'd be better off if they were a matched pair, but depending on the mic technique you use, unmatched MC012's probably won't make that huge of a difference as overheads.

[Sixpence]

My response was based on budget and life span.
I've used the 604's live 5-6 nights a week for the last year and have no issues with thier lifespan and sound. If I was willing to spend more bucks and carry a heavier case I would get MD421's for toms, not for kick though. If I had $$$ choices I'd say 98's on toms and 91 on Kick.The 98's are easier to keep out of the way than the 418's.
I see everyone is pretty much agreed on the 57 for snare.... it's hard to beat.

The Oktava's are great for the money. My next choice for me will be the 184's.. Don't know if I'd regret buying one at at time though... Obviously matched pairs are best...

I'd have to disagree with Phil on the ATM25. Not my style by far. I do know people who swear by them (and I do respect your opinion Phil, In this and other forums) but they're not for me.

I'm suprised there's little mention of the Beyer M88. Great mic if you can get it S/H. Beyer do another kick mic... 480 or something... avoid it.. same with the Peavey kick mic (breaks really easy)..

Well enough rambling for now.

[Phil O'Keefe]

hat's okay Sean - I certainly respect your opinions too!

The KM184 is a pretty good O/H mic, but if I was going to spend those dollars, I might want to consider the AKG C-451's. When we last discussed this over at musicplayer, John Paterno mentioned them in that application, and I agree. And they're less expensive than the Neumanns too.And then there's always Royer and Beyer M169 ribbons. But I think we're starting to get out of his $700 budget neighborhood now. images/icons/smile.gif Again, if I had my choice, I'd use the RE20 inside, and a Neumann U47 FET or Soundelux 195 outside the kick... but again, we'd be moving more upscale with those mics. But I'm not giving up my RE20 anytime soon!

[Sixpence]

I remember all the Royer envy over at RO and RecPit...... I'd forgotten the C451 had been re-released.... Still I think I'd go with the 184's...
And just on a side note ... although the PV kick mic is crap, the condensor's arent bad for the money..... good wide spread. Get a passable kit out of a Kick/Overhead combo...