non-visual CLICK before & after regions

[Anima Suri]

SETUP:
G4 400 Mhz OS9.04 352Mb RAM
Diskcache: 512Kb
Virtual memory off
Extensions OS 9.04 base + all protools DAE & OMS ext. ON
PROTOOLS 5.0.1 TDM MIX+ DAE 5.0.1 Digisystem INIT 5.0.1
protools sync setup: internal
APOGEE AD-8000
ATTO SCSI acceleration card.
two Barracudda 18Gb external HD's


problem:

Before the playing of a region and after the playing of a region I observe an audible but non-visual click.
When I use extreme fade in and fade outs I still hear the click before those fades.
When in loop-play I do not hear the clicks.
When clicking on the stop and play buttons of the transport window I hear a click.

Problem solving :

1. reinstalled all protools software

2. trashed all preferences

3. tried 16 and 24 bit sessions in 44.1 Khz

4. erased external HD's

5. changed ALL RAM

6. initiated Digi test for cards: OK

7. changed, swapped HD, SCSI cables, Device ID's and SCSI card channels.

8. Scanned for virusses:OK

9. used different audio materials and file types

11. increased and decreased memory allocations for both protools and DAE now setup as followed: DAE minimum @ 10,036K and max @ 100,000K Protools min @ 21,205K & max @ 100,000K Both are unlocked. The DAE buffer is set @ 8.

10. Tried with identical audio material on my G3 266Mhz with 001 and have no clicks what so ever!!!

I will soon defragmentize the internal HD.
I will soon check the TDM ribbon cable.

I hope for some of your suggestions as it is painfull to see that my 001 is performing better than its big brother...

Best Regards and million thanks!
Anima Suri

[Arno Peeters]

Unfortunately there's a whole range of possible causes:
- (indeed) dirty TDM cable
- Diskdrivers
- Faulty RAM
- Clocking/sync issues
- Atto-card settings

Search the DUC for post containing the words 'clicks', see if you find anything and post back...

Good luck !



------------------
Arno Peeters
Tape TV Productions (http://www.tapetv.nl)

[Anima Suri]

Originally posted by Arno Peeters:
Unfortunately there's a whole range of possible causes:
- (indeed) dirty TDM cable
- Diskdrivers
- Faulty RAM
- Clocking/sync issues
- Atto-card settings

Search the DUC for post containing the words 'clicks', see if you find anything and post back...

Good luck !



Thanks Arno Peeters, for your advice.

Altough before I posted my problem I did have a look at the search on "click" in the DUC. As you can see from my list of trials they contain some of your and other people's suggestions though untill now I have no luck.

I have already substituted ALL my RAM with new RAM. I am not syncing protools to any other piece of gear accept than my AD-8000 (could that be the problem?)

The disk drivers... that I will check. I asume you mean they could be incompatible with protools or corrupted.

I will triple check my ATTO settings, return them to factory presets.

Different from some of the other posted issues is that these clicks in my system are *NOT* random at all. The clicks are *CONSTANT* in time and location. With a maximum of 2 clicks per region: before it and after it.

Thanks again for your advice!
Anima Suri

[DigiTechSupt]

-Zoom in at sample level on the beginnings/ends of your regions and see where the amplitude of the waveform starts. If it is drastically higher/lower than the zero crosspoint (i.e. 0dB), then clicks may occur at region boundaries.

- Never change the Minimum memory size of DAE and/or Pro Tools (only change the Preferred size). If you have, you can set it back to the default setting by typing a 0 into the field and press Enter on the numerical keypad.

-What format utility did you use to initialize your drives?

Brent

[Anima Suri]

Hi Brent from DigiTechSupport,

Thanks for replying.

Sample level on the beginnings/ends of regions: I have looked at this but no problem there. And as mentioned, the clicks appear even before extreme fade ins and fade outs. I have the same clicks on audiofiles I import and listen to without editing. These same files have no clicks on my other protools system.

- The minimum size for the DAE and protools are set at their defaults, I changed the preferred settings.

-As format utility to initialize the drives I used ATTO. I initialized the disks by this standard and installed the ATTO diskdrivers ver. 2.3.2f0 ATTO is setup with its factory defaults.

I have cleaned the TDM cable.

I have swapped my protools TDM from my G4 into my G3 and still have the problem. The 001 on the G4 has no problem. Now I have installed everything back into the original computers G3+001, G4+TDM.

I'm still looking for a solution.
Thanks, for your advice.
Anima Suri

[Anima Suri]

Additional findings:

It seems now that in 44.1Khz I sometimes get random digital noises (a wash of clicks, as if I'm listening to some old vinyl) all over the audio materials.

In 48Khz this is not a problem. These noises do not appear each time. These noises are in addition to the clicks mentioned above.

More and more I believe it is a clocking error of some kind.
I can not see any wrong setups on the DA-8000 nor within protools...

I look forward to some comments.

Thanks,

Anima Suri

[DigiTechSupt]

-Yes, this seems like a clocking issue.

-Make sure that the AMBUS dip-switch settings on the AD8000 are correct. Contact Apogee if you are unsure.

-Since you have been moving your cards around, be sure to trash the DigiSetup File, Pro Tools preference, and DAE prefs (the entire folder) from the System Folder>Preferences folder. Empty the Trash and restart the Mac.

-If possible, try another interface cable.

-Disconnect any Digital devices that may be connected to the AD8000.

-If there are multiple interfaces being used in the system, make sure the SuperClock signal is daisy-chained between all of them.

-Try recording to the System drive and see if the clicking persists.

Brent

[AdamFrick]

anima -

i had a (i think) similar problem on my g3/mix+/atto/glyph-kensignton/ad-8k+888 system. i also clock to an aardsync for my clock (it feeds the ad8k as well as the 888) and haven't had the problem as consistently as you do. as much as possible, all my digital devices that are connected to the ad8k are clocked to the aardsync. these would address any random clicks due to clocking.

regarding the pops at the head and tail of regions, i have found that if i'm monitoring in "source" with the digi routed to the digital in, which is selected on tracks 1/2, i get these pops more often than when in destination.

don't know if any of that helps. good luck.

=a=

[maxx]

One other cause of "invisible" clicks... A sudden, extreme volume automation move within the boundries of a region.

Display your problem regions in "volume" mode to see if there are any extreme, abrupt volume automation moves written over audible material.

This happened to me a while ago after a frenzied editing session and had me pulling my hair out for a few minutes trying to identify the source of the pops I was hearing. No visual indication in waveform display mode but when I viewed the region in volume display mode I saw an unintentional, sudden volume move left over from a previous arrangement that was now sitting in the middle of a region. Sure enough, that was the problem.

Just one other possibility to check.

[PT2GO]

Do you hear the clicks monitoring from the D/A's of the 8k? I have a similar problem if I'm monitoring on headphones from the headphone out of the Apogee. When I listen from the analog outs, I don't hear it. The 8k manual mentions something about the headphones monitoring all processing done on the 8k. I wonder if it has something to do with that.
Jerry
Nashville,TN

[This message has been edited by PT2GO (edited February 05, 2001).]

[Anima Suri]

Hi Maxx, PT2GO, Adam Frick and Brent,

Thanks Everyone for your input! I was out of my studio for some days. It's great to get so much help in this Protools community!

1. I looked at the dip-switch settings of the AD-8000: o.k.

2. I trashed all prefs.

3. The daisy chaining all interfaces with superclock is no issue for me.

4. No digital devices are connected.

5. I have tried to record to th system drive: still clicks.

6. i did not use any automation except than my fade in and out (which is no automation feature)

7. I am using the analog monitor converter from the AD8000

8. I am listening through source on the AD8000: by swiching to DESTINATION ALL CLICKS DISAPPEARED!!!!!!!!

SO PROBLEM IS SOLVED,... not protools after all...: I THANK YOU ALL!!!! AND ESPECIALLY ADAM FRICK!!! You have saved me from major disaster such as downtime and all!!! http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://duc.digidesign.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

Anima Suri

[This message has been edited by Anima Suri (edited February 06, 2001).]