Hardware Inserts

[bradd]

Hello. I've been tracking with an RNC for a number of months now, but I'm now wanting to use it as an insert. I have the outs of the RNC plugged into input 5-6 on the Digi 001. From there I'm following the directions on p. 348 of the Pro Tools Reference Guide regarding creating a discrete submix. It seems like I'm doing everything right, but nothing is happening. The lights on the RNC aren't lighting up and the track that I'm attempting to process with the RNC is silent.

Can anybody tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me precise instructions for how to do this? I'd be most appreciative.

[tele_player]

The RNC needs an input and an output.

[bradd]

OK, so I plugged output 1-2 from the Digi into the inputs of the RNC and then followed all the procedures mentioned above. Now I get the most brutal screeching noise I've ever heard. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.

[tele_player]

Connect the RNC to UNUSED inputs and outputs, not 1 and 2. You've got feedback.
Example of a good setup:
- output 3 and 4 into RNC 1 and 2 (or left/right, I don't know how it's labeled)
- RNC left into input 3, RNC right into input 4
Make sure that you don't cross them. Input 3 and Output 3 go to one side of the RNC, Input 4 and output 4 go to the other.

Now, you can use the RNC on an insert in ProTools, just select the appropriate number from the inserts I/O list.

[bradd]

Tele, thanks for your help, but I'm still struggling. If I assign the output of the auxilliary input track to the outputs assigned to the RNC, I can't hear the processed audio since the outs are no longer assigned to my monitors.

Here's what I've done so far. I've plugged the respective inputs on the RNC into outputs 5-6 on the Digi. Then I've plugged inputs 7-8 into the respective outputs on the RNC. Then I create an auxillary input track. Then I take my snare track for example and I assign it's output to an unused stereo bus. Then I assign that same bus to the input of the auxillary input track. I then insert Analog 7-8 in the i/o window (plugin window). I then assume I would assign the output of the auxillary input track to Analog 5-6.

What am I doing wrong? Thanks for the help.

Also, is this whole process worth it if I'm making multiple conversions on the way back and forth from the RNC? Is the degradation in audio worth the processing? In other words, is this only worth doing if you have a nice outboard A/D D/A converter? Thanks.

[JFreak]

Here's what I've done so far. I've plugged the respective inputs on the RNC into outputs 5-6 on the Digi. Then I've plugged inputs 7-8 into the respective outputs on the RNC. Then I create an auxillary input track. Then I take my snare track for example and I assign it's output to an unused stereo bus. Then I assign that same bus to the input of the auxillary input track. I then insert Analog 7-8 in the i/o window (plugin window). I then assume I would assign the output of the auxillary input track to Analog 5-6.



inserts have to use matching i/o numbers - so for example, in protools mixing window you set insert as "analog 1-2" and that means protools expects that you connect digi gear outputs "analog 1-2" to your external device and have your device outputting to your digi gear inputs "analog 1-2". there's no other way. you cannot route digi output 1-2 to digi input 3-4 or any other way, it must go by matching i/o numbers!

[lopper]

Just wondering, how do you compensate for the quite noticeable latency created by the hardware insert in LE. I've searched at length for the answer with no luck. <font color="#666666">

[tele_player]

bradd - re-read what I wrote. Use an INSERT on the track you want to process. DO NOT assign the output of that track to the ports where you've connected the compressor. This is what hardware inserts are about - you use them JUST LIKE software inserts, except you select them from the I/O menu. When you get this, you'll laugh at how simple it is.

Yes, there will be latency, but that's OK for post-processing an existing track, since you can nudge it appropriately. NOTE: the amount you nudge will depend on your current setting for H/W buffer, and will be incorrect if you change that setting.

[bradd]

Thanks again guys. I got this part figured out. Now I have a new, yet related question. I recently purchased a Rosetta 800, which I don't yet have, but is being shipped. How would I hook up the RNC (or any other piece of outboard gear) so that I can use the conversion in the Rosetta. Can I use the ADAT i/o the same way as described above? Also, I've never worried much about delay compensation for plugs. Is there a way to tell how much a given plug or hardware insert is delaying the audio? Thanks again.

[tele_player]

You're doing this backwards - when you really need something, you'll know why, and how to use it.

Salesmen must love you.

[Bhennies]

the rnc's are decent compressors (I have two) but really not worth going out of the box to use. Not only do you lose the convenience of non-destructive audio when you send audio D/A/D, but the signal degredation makes any sonic benefit hard to notice. There are some pretty good plugins that will match the quality of the RNC for sure. It seems to be the consensus (at least in my circle) that unless you've got an 1176, LA2A, distressor or something really high end- leave it in the box.

[bradd]

I know what you're saying tele, but my reason for buying the Rosetta was simply to upgrade my A/D converters going in, and my D/A converters for monitoring. Using it with outboard such as an RNC would just be an added bonus. I also understand that the RNC is not super high-end and it may not be worth it to use it during mixing. I assume that if I were to do this with the RNC or any other outboard piece of gear I would do just as described above except using the corresponding ADAT i/o's. Correct?

Thanks again.

[lwilliam]

Regarding the Rosetta 800 question. Yes, once you hook up the Rosetta via ADAT lightpipe, you should then see additional i/o available when you open the dropdown box on all channels, auxes, inserts, etc. It will be labelled something like Optical 1/2, Optical 3/4...where you can then toggle the view to see the individual i/o's instead of the stereo view.

Just use two of the Rosetta's inputs and two of it's outputs and assign them to an insert just like you would with the 002R. I do this with a couple of reverb units on my RME ADI8-Pro and my 001. I even renamed the buss send and return to reflect the destination and source, and set that as my default i/o setup for every session. However, with a compressor, you definitely shouldn't use a send, but only an insert.

Since the RNC is all analog, there is no perceivable latency going into our out of the unit, so the latency would be the round trip time at the buffer setting you're using. If you're at 44.1, and 256 samples for the buffer, then it's around 5.8ms one way, or 11ms round-trip, if I recall correctly. If you're at 128 samples, then just halve those numbers and nudge the track accordingly.

[bradd]

Thanks. That's what I was looking for.