reel to reel machines

[Tedmod]

reel to reel stereo recorders are selling for less that $100 in ebay..
are these the machines that could give us the warm analog sound? how do you set these using 002R?
Do i mixdown on that machine? or jast treat it as an insert effect?

[Barnabas]

You could use the reel-to-reel tape machine in a number of ways. The key to getting a warm sound is recording the audio to tape at a hot level. This could be individual tracks, as an insert, or on the final mix.

Not all reel-to-reel decks are created equal, and not all tapes are created equal. A cheap deck can add extra noise to your music, or might color the frequencies in ways you don't intend. You might need to align the heads (with a tiny screwdriver) to make sure you get the maximum sound possible.

Some tape brands work better with certain decks. This can be adjusted with the right tools, but cheaper tapes usually sound cheaper.

I don't use tape anymore because the ProTools sound works for the music I'm recording.

It's all up to your ears and the effect you are trying to create. Experiment!

[mpark9000]

reel to reel stereo recorders are selling for less that $100 in ebay..
are these the machines that could give us the warm analog sound? how do you set these using 002R?
Do i mixdown on that machine? or jast treat it as an insert effect?



Beware of older tape decks. You need to know some history of them and get some specs. Not all tape decks were full bandwidth and will just screw up your mix. The whole "analog is warmer" thing is much more complex than that. It's like saying "race cars are faster than sports cars". Take a 1920 race car and race it against a modern Porsche and see who wins. For that matter, race it against a Ford Focus and see who wins. My point is that technology is always replacing itself.

Some analog decks are great. You need to know which ones. A $100 deck from eBay or a garage sale *most likely* isn't one of them. Also, analog tape decks take a lot of maintenance. How well was the deck in question maintained? Are the heads worn? Was it ever biased? Did they even clean or condition the rubber? Does it come with test tones? Do you know what to do with a test tone tape?

Other questions:

What is the tape format? A 1/4" quarter track has half the track size of a quarter inch half track. A 1/2" half track is the format normally used in mastering. If your tape is 1/4" wide and your squeezing 4 tracks (quarter track) across it, you can expect some crosstalk. In fact, the manufacturer may have reduced the frequency response as a way to reduce crosstalk. A half track just has two tracks across the tape, giving it better specs. A 1/2 inch half track has two tracks across 1/2" of tape. These are the "analog is warmer" machines you hear about. These are still expensive, and if you see one for $100, buy it!

What speed does it run at? 30ips is considered professional. Most consumer RtoR decks ran at 7 1/2ips and sometimes 15ips. Faster speed uses more tape for the same amount of energy, translating in to better frequency response and other good things. This can get expensive in terms of tape cost.

Is it belt driven? If so, how old are the belts? Try to find parts for one of these old machines *before* buying one.

If it's eBay, is the seller paying for shipping? These things usually weighed a ton.

There's more to be learned, do some research before you send off your hard earned $100. OTOH, sometimes getting stuck with one of these things _is_ the best research

[Tedmod]

Thanks for that great detailed reply. the machines i mentioned are of these type:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67810&item=5711304221&rd=1

any comments. Based from your reply, this isn't great/ But what if i just use it as an insert effect and not as my master deck?
thanks again

[mpark9000]

Thanks for that great detailed reply. the machines i mentioned are of these type:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67810&item=5711304221&rd=1

any comments. Based from your reply, this isn't great/ But what if i just use it as an insert effect and not as my master deck?
thanks again



I don't trust his sales BS. Ya know, promoting 7 1/2 ips as "the best" etc. Is he trying a little too hard? Also, it may be a bad pic, but the heads looked like they had wear. If so, his claims of 3 or 4 hours of use is a load of cr*p.

If your looking around for a RtoR deck that is a little more professional, look at reel size. Other than a Revox, 7" reels usually meant consumer junk. I'm sure someone will jump on me if/when I've omitted some great 7" reel machine. 10" reels are usually used professionally in modern times.

OTOH, if I saw this at a pawn shop or whatever, I would start trying to figure out how I could use it. Definately effect territory, trying to master to this would be self defeating. It also looks like it has sound-on-sound, but probably in stereo pairs. You might get a great echoplex effect if it lets you playback and record from different heads. Looks like fun, I forgot to look but is he paying shipping?

[dkrz]

I like the spaceship at the bottom. Ti Fighter?

dk

[RadioMoo]

Your better bets are Otari, Studer and (let me know about these!) Ampex. MCI is also pretty decent.

[Infa]

Tedmod,, your headed in the right direction,, and your ideas are great. For that is what I do, for the SAME reasons you mentioned.
BUT, I will have to say, for Reel 2 Reel, if you don't go bigger than 1/2" tape,, you are really just going to introduce more bad qualities to your music than good. That is just my opinion though. But it has been from alot of experiencing, and my super anal ears (just call me "Colan Ears" ).....( I actually got the very RARE Ampex 1" STEREO Analog Reel 2 Reel tape recorder...brand new)

And I would also stick to mainly only 2 brands : Ampex , or Studer .....

Plus you really want to be careful about tape machines. Especially on eBay !! Even if you DO go above 1/4" tape to 1/2" tape , if the machine is to worn out, then you are screwed, unless you put in a decent amount to fix it up. And some are so far gone, there is NO bringing 'em back EVER.. And even though they may work,, like I said, you'll be introducing more bad to your music than good(via high noise floor, unstable tempo, tape flucteration, and just plain bad Tape hiss)....

This is why I bought mine as close to brand new as you can get,,,, I really trust this place, and they are known by all the big people in the industry-- Click on this link : http://www.atrservice.com/ ....... There you will find everything.
They also did a write up on me,, when your at their homepage from that link I just gave you, on the right side is a topic that says "SF Project Studio Takes 1-inch Analog Plunge" -- That's me,, read about it.......

Hope this helps

[mpark9000]

Here's another ad:

http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/msg/38201525.html

[headwerk'n]

I think the previous posts have already touched on it, but basically when people talk about 'that sweet saturated analog tape sound', they're talking about Studers and Otaris... expensive machines that use expensive tapes, and are expensive to maintain. You'll notice I used the term "expensive" a lot in that last sentence ;-)

I highly doubt any "cheap" tape deck would deliver that clean, smooth "analog" sound you seek. A better choice would be some kind of quality tube compressor or EQ - or a plugin that approximates one.

That said, don't discount old reel to reel machines as effects units. If you're into more wacky, lofi sounds, such machines offer plenty of options. Overdriving the machine's amps, or simply blasting the tape with signal may generate a sound that, while not sonically pure by any stretch of the imagination, could be of use to you.

And of course, more traditional effects like phasing, flanging and echo (Frippertronics anyone?) were invented on tape decks. Get a pair and start creating some seriously twisted effects.

[RadioMoo]

more traditional effects like phasing, flanging and echo (Frippertronics anyone?) were invented on tape decks. Get a pair and start creating some seriously twisted effects.



Thanks! There is no plug that will give you the sound of flanging the way two tape decks will. Looping was first done on tape, too.

Also, the "warm sound" has more to do with the electronics of the tape machine (and whatever is being used for the input) than does running the input level hot. That said, there is a "fatness" to the sound when the levels are run into the red; it sounds like the tape itself is acting like a compressor so as an alternative, as someone else suggested, try a good tube/valve front end to your DAW or insert one while mixing.

[Tedmod]

thanks for all who helped..didn't bid on that scary tape machine but cant afford the studers, ampex and otaris either, I guess i should stick to a warm /tube front end.

[p.markham]

Got a better idea for you Ted. Check out McDSP's Analog Channel software. You will get analog board sounds and Studer, Otari (and others) warm saturated tape sounds without the hassles of using tape machines. This software sounds great (and no I don't work for McDSP. lol!) Looking for analog warmth in the digital world - then check it out! You'd be surprised how many big name producers master using this software. Very cool.

[toddm7]

That ragedy mid-fi, limited band-width, hi wow and flutter, tape-hissy sound is exactly why I want one.

[RadioMoo]

cant afford the studers, ampex and otaris



Call around to radio stations, either in your town or in other places (talk first to the chief engineer); radio is about 95% digital now, and you might run into an Otari or Studer that some bean counter would want to make a quick buck on. Also, keep checking eBay under "tape recorder."

[headwerk'n]

no plug that will give you the sound of flanging the way two tape decks will.



Damn right. Listen to Jimi Hendrix's "Bold As Love" - the drum fill and guitar solo at the end. When has a BOSS pedal ever sounded like that? It's so thick and chewy, it's the sonic equivalent of having a Mars bar jammed into your ear.