PTLE/DIGI001 Yamaha AW4416

[Derk]

two questions:
1:
Whats the best method to sync PTLE to the AW4416

2:
suppose:
16 tracks on AW4416
8 tracks on PTLE
If 8 tracks from PTLE return to AW441 (ADAT I/0)
can I record a stereo track back bases on 24 tracks to PTLE in a other session for mastering purposes?

[Phil O'Keefe]

I'm sorry but I'm just about to turn in... it's 0305 Hrs here and I'm too tired to answer this tonight. But rest assured that I will answer this tomorrow, and I can definitely help you with this - I've got two AW4416's and, all modesty aside, I'm considered an "expert" with them as well as with locking them to things - including PT.

Hang in there a few hours - help's on the way. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[mixerboy]

Hi

AW4416 & the 001 make a killer rig [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

MTC out from the AW to midi in on the 001. You may have to change a setting in pro tools sync menu.
Click the sync button on pro tools transport and Bob should be your uncle!

As for your other question. You could run the s/dif stereo out from the AW to the 001 and record it to a spare stereo track in your pro tools session. Then bounce just that stereo track, or open the two (L & R) tracks into a new session.
That way you can have your 24 tracks running out of the AW and still record your Stereo track on pro tools.

AW also has a stereo track available for mix down but I have never used it. That might be another way to go.

Good luck

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, here we go...

Mixerboy basically has it correct, although I prefer having things the opposite - IOW, I have Pro Tools sending MTC out to the AW4416's. It just seems to function more reliably for me this way, but again, my system is a bit more complex since I have TWO AW4416's locked to each other - and to Pro Tools.

So set your AW4416 as the MTC slave. Make sure you have a MIDI cable from your AW4416's MIDI OUT connected to the Digi 001's MIDI IN, and a second cable connected from the Digi 001's MIDI OUT to the AW4416's MIDI IN. Then set PT to send MTC OUT.

You can have the AW4416 as the MMC (MIDI Machine Control) master, or Pro Tools as the MMC master - that's up to you. Whichever one is the master, then the other one needs to be the slave. With MMC, the transport of one device controls the transport of the other, so whichever one you want to physically press "PLAY" from is the one you should have as the MMC master. I normally have the AW as MMC master and PT as the MMC slave, but that's up to you.

The other issue is the lightpipe. I'm assuming you're using a MY8-AT lightpipe card in your AW4416... the setup is a bit more complex if you're using the lightpipe on a Waves Y56K card. If that's what you have, let me know and I'll give you the details on that...

Anyway, MTC (MIDI Time Code) provides POSITIONAL SYNC, and Pro Tools just "triggers" off of incoming MTC... if you do not lock the Word Clocks of the two units, then you're going to have a couple of problems - "clicks" and "pops" in the audio, as well as "drift" in position between the two units. So what you need to do is to make sure that both units are getting their word clock from a common source. The best way to do this is to have the AW4416 set as the Word Clock master (which it automatically defaults to) and have the Digi 001 get it's word clock from the incoming Lightpipe signal. You can still transfer audio in either direction, even with the Digi 001 getting word clock from the incoming lightpipe - even if no audio is being sent from the AW into the Digi 001, the lightpipe is always carrying word clock data.

So connect two lightpipe cables - one from the MY8-AT lightpipe out into the Digi 001's lightpipe in, and the other from the Digi 001's lightpipe out to the MY8-AT's lightpipe in. Set the Pro Tools clock to "ADAT Lightpipe".

Once this is done, you can assign tracks in PT to go out the lightpipe and into the AW4416... either routed to recorder tracks or to some of the "extra" mixer channels (mixer layers 1 and 2) for mixing on the AW. Since the AW has a total of 44 mixer channels (16 for the recorder, 4 for the effects returns and 24 "assignable") you can use the AW as the main "mixing" machine... Since your AW4416 has two card slots and 8 "stock" analog inputs, you can connect all 16 Digi 001 outputs into the AW4416 if you'd like - 8 analog (either via the stock analog inputs or with an optional MY8-AD24 a/d converter card) and 8 lightpipe digital. In Pro Tools, you can assign individual tracks to individual outputs (giving you 32 discrete tracks - 16 AW and 16 PT) or you can use PT to "submix" some things - for example, sub all the BGV's to a stereo output pair (such as lightpipe 1/2) and then into a stereo pair of AW mixer channels. This way you can end up with MORE than 32 tracks - Up to 32 in Pro Tools, plus the 16 on the AW. 48 tracks! [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

The advantage to this method of working is that the AW4416's mixer power "supplements" Pro Tools' power by allowing you to utilize the AW's EQ, effects processors and dynamics processors for Pro Tools tracks instead of relying solely on RTAS plug ins. You can also use the AW's mixer automation for the whole thing if you'd like - and the AW has pretty darn good automation. If you prefer working with "real" faders and already have an AW, then this is one good way to do it.

One other thing - the AW's Master Stereo "Mixdown" track can be used to record your master mixdown if you're working in this way. It will "see / hear" everything coming into the AW's mixer - not just the AW's audio tracks, but also whatever is fed into the "extra" mixer channels.

You can also send tracks the OTHER way - out of the AW and into PT for editing and processing. Sometimes I'll "fly" AW tracks into PT in just this way, edit them then "fly" them back to the AW for mixing over there.

Create some aux input channels in the PT session, and you can do the mix in PT instead of on the AW if you want. Route AW tracks to those aux inputs, either via analog or Lightpipe inputs assigned to the aux input channels in PT. The advantage here is that everything can be done in PT... the disadvantage is that everything is being done in PT. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] It just depends on how you prefer to work. In this mode, you can use the AW4416's mixer to control the onscreen faders in PT - but they do not function as motorized faders in that mode of operation. Anyway, if you're interested in that, the PT template for the AW4416 is a free download available at http://www.aw4416.com in the download section.

Now that I have a Digi 002 and the control surface that it has, I find myself using the AW4416's less and less these days. I still REALLY love them, but since I am working for clients and time is money, I find that tracking in PT is usually the best for me, since the AW4416's are a little slow when it comes to disk / data backups - the 6 / 8 X burners on the AW can't compete with the 48 X burner in my PC... but as far as sound quality, I think the AW's rock! I still use them for A/D conversion, extra mic preamps, processing (EQ, dynamics) when tracking into PT (sending the AW signals into PT when tracking), and for low latency monitoring while tracking - things like that. I rarely find myself needing more than 32 tracks for the way I work, and my PC is pretty powerful, so I do a lot of stuff in PT, although I occasionally send "stems" (submixed tracks) from PT into the AW at mixdown. When I do that, I send the AW's S/PDIF out into a secondary soundcard on my PC (M Audio Audiophile 2496) and that feeds into Sound Forge 5, also running on the same PC as PT. IOW, my final mix feeds into a second program running on my PC... unless I'm also running a copy of it out to my analog two track machine... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Anyway, hopefully this will offer you a few ideas on your options - tere are several available, and only you can decide on which way you want to work. If you have any other questions on specifics ("what do I hit to make the AW the MTC master?") then let me know what method of working you're shooting for and what you need and I'll try my best to give you a step by step... but check the manuals first, okay? You can learn a lot that way! But I'm here to help if you get stuck.

Best wishes,

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Derk:


2:
suppose:
16 tracks on AW4416
8 tracks on PTLE
If 8 tracks from PTLE return to AW441 (ADAT I/0)
can I record a stereo track back bases on 24 tracks to PTLE in a other session for mastering purposes?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you could also record the mix on two tracks in Pro Tools if you'd like, as long as you have not used more than 30 tracks already and saved two tracks (or one stereo track) for the mix.
.

[EB]

Thanks Phil..!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
I was just going to ask you that about the AW4416 to the digi001 bundle pack, I've been reading the old posts with you and Allen. I noticed the pic on your website of your studio and seen what looked like the AW4416?? I seen 2 of them in that pic. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
I just filled up my hard drive and was looking into another for the AW4416, they are up to 40GB now, however Hitachi took over IBM. I'm still trying to get this digi001, to work right with an unsupported AMD chipset!! It stops after a few seconds of recording a track and freezes up.Among the other issues with the iLok on windows XP. I looked on www.iLok.com and there is only downloaded software for the MAC OS??? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
Among that, when you first go into pro tools between the plug-ins, and the iLok key prompts come up about the plug-ins. I almost feel like I'm a beta tester for pro tools 6.0. There's nothing on the answerbase for this with XP??

[Phil O'Keefe]

EB, yes, I have two AW4416's. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I was the first person anywhere (including at Yamaha) to lock / cascade two of them together, and the first to lock two of them AND simultaneously lock them to something else (a DAW or ADAT's). I also beta tested the 2.0 OS software and the Waves Y56K card. So I'm fairly knowledgeable on those machines. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Actually, I've been considering selling them and getting one of the new hi res Yamaha mixing boards. It's not that I don't like the AW's anymore (they're VERY cool!), it's just that I dislike the backup time - those CD-RW's are pretty slow. They're fine for people working on a few songs over a long period of time at home, but a hinderance when you're doing this all day, every day for a large variety of clients. Since I can back up SO much faster on PT (with my 40 X CD-RW) I have been using that more and more and the AW's less and less - at least for recording. I still use them as mixing consoles. So I think replacing them with a 96 KHz capable board might be a better way for me to go.

Now as far as your PC problems go, we might be able to help you. What we need for you to do is to list your whole system as completely as possible. CPU, motherboard / chipset, all PCI cards, video card, IRQ's - the works. Then we need a fairly detailed description of what problems you've had as well as what you've already tried insofar as fixing things. I'm sure you'll get a lot of useful information from the experts around here.

And as far as the AW4416, you might want to go to:

http://socialentropy.com/aw4416/

Click on the FAQ link on the left side of the page. Under "AW4416 Usage Questions", the second to the last link is to an article I wrote entitled "How do you link two AW4416s together?". While that specifically addresses locking two AW's together, the concept of locking an AW to PT is virtually identical. That article might be of use to you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

One other thing you might find useful is this link to a article I wrote on disconnecting the AW's CD-RW fan for quieter operation. BTW, since I wrote that article, Yamaha USA has been referring people to that article, and has stated publically that doing that mod will NOT void the warranty.

http://socialentropy.com/aw4416/AW44...onnect%202.htm

Hope this is useful to you. Don't forget to post your problems and your computer's specs. You might want to do that on a new thread so you get a little more "traffic" and exposure.

[SEBJOERG]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe:
EB, yes, I have two AW4416's. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I was the first person anywhere (including at Yamaha) to lock / cascade two of them together, and the first to lock two of them AND simultaneously lock them to something else (a DAW or ADAT's). I also beta tested the 2.0 OS software and the Waves Y56K card. So I'm fairly knowledgeable on those machines. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Actually, I've been considering selling them and getting one of the new hi res Yamaha mixing boards. It's not that I don't like the AW's anymore (they're VERY cool!), it's just that I dislike the backup time - those CD-RW's are pretty slow. They're fine for people working on a few songs over a long period of time at home, but a hinderance when you're doing this all day, every day for a large variety of clients. Since I can back up SO much faster on PT (with my 40 X CD-RW) I have been using that more and more and the AW's less and less - at least for recording. I still use them as mixing consoles. So I think replacing them with a 96 KHz capable board might be a better way for me to go.

Now as far as your PC problems go, we might be able to help you. What we need for you to do is to list your whole system as completely as possible. CPU, motherboard / chipset, all PCI cards, video card, IRQ's - the works. Then we need a fairly detailed description of what problems you've had as well as what you've already tried insofar as fixing things. I'm sure you'll get a lot of useful information from the experts around here.

And as far as the AW4416, you might want to go to:

http://socialentropy.com/aw4416/

Click on the FAQ link on the left side of the page. Under "AW4416 Usage Questions", the second to the last link is to an article I wrote entitled "How do you link two AW4416s together?". While that specifically addresses locking two AW's together, the concept of locking an AW to PT is virtually identical. That article might be of use to you. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

One other thing you might find useful is this link to a article I wrote on disconnecting the AW's CD-RW fan for quieter operation. BTW, since I wrote that article, Yamaha USA has been referring people to that article, and has stated publically that doing that mod will NOT void the warranty.

http://socialentropy.com/aw4416/AW44...onnect%202.htm

Hope this is useful to you. Don't forget to post your problems and your computer's specs. You might want to do that on a new thread so you get a little more "traffic" and exposure.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...and if your sessions don`t swing, it don`t mean a thing...
Don`t forget the latency issue at 2.9ms on the auxes too... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]


Best,
Svein Egil

[Danny-truro]

Hey Phil!

I have tried to send you a PM bit can't seem to get it working!

You seem to know alot about the Yamaha Aw4416 and I think you might be able to help me with a problem I have! Hopefully you can

When I go to arm a track ready to record, I am
Getting a message that reads "play track mute is on"

And it isn't letting me get a level into the desk, and therefore not record anything! Although when I turn the gain up full and tap the mic, the peal button is flashing so I know there is a signal coming in, just not getting any further!

None of the tracks are directly muted on the track screen either!

Really don't know what it is! I think it happened when I went to recall a scene that had no data in it by accident, as in, scene 00, but surely that shouldnt do anything? That is just when I noticed there was no level coming into the desk, it might not have anything to do with it!

Any help you can give me is really very appreciated!

Thanks alot,

Danny.