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  #1  
Old 08-21-2020, 08:39 AM
Franklyn Franklyn is offline
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
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Default Analog Summing in PT Ultimate with working ADC - my Solution

I found a solution to "insert" an analog summing mixer without getting sync/delay problems on the DAW return.

What you need:

1. ProTools Ultimate (it must support surround channels)

2. The same amount of interface inputs and outputs (the amount of channels you want to sum up).

I made 3 different routingfolder track presets (one for 8Ch summing, one for 10Ch and one for 16CH) which include everything you need and also a „read me" with instructions. So you can start without reading this whole post. I tested the 10 Chanel Version and it works perfect.

link to my presets:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1cd12cdlu...VqH8HH6sa?dl=0




This is how it works:

I built 2 surround aux busses/tracks, each with a surround hardware I/O (one for the odd/left, one for the even/right channels), which gives PT the right information to compensate the summing.

These 2 surround auxes get their inputs from 8 (or10 or 16) mono aux channels. These 8 (10/16) auxes are the sends to your individual channels of your summing box. The odd (left) channels go to the first surroud aux and the even (right) to the second. (This „left/right“ setup is because of limmitation of surround channel output possibilities.)

For routing tracks in your session to the summing box I built 8 (10/16) busses called „to summing mixer 1-2, 3-4, ….“

The 2 surround auxes (L&R), where the complete summing hardware is inserted, are going to an stereo aux where your summarized signal can be routed to your masterbus or aux for your final digital masterbus processing.

This stereo aux is also the routing folder, so you can close the folder without thinking what’s going on inside.

The pictures show how the busses and the I/O’s are built in the I/O setup and how it is routed in the mixerwindow.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wroma6s58h...Setup.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hufu1pn1o...setup.png?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbr8cjvbqx...indow.png?dl=0

The summing box inputs are connected to the interface out channel numbers which are configurated in the I/O insert setup (f.e. 17, 18, …24). On the interface input solely the stereo output of your summing box is connected to 1 pair of the configurated inserts (f.e. 23&24) . For insert I/O’s you always need the same amount of ins and outs. Do not connect the unussed interface channels (f.e. 17, 18, ….22). leave them empty. You can also easily move the interface ins and outs in the I/O insert setup where your summing box is still connected. Please keep the order of the ins and outs like this to get a logical order in your summing box.

I tested the 10 channel version with my heritage audio MCM Mk2 and it worked perfect. I can send the output of every track or bus/aux to one of the summing mixer channels („to summing mixer 1-2. ….). stereo or mono.

The cool thing is, even if you decide to NOT route all tracks of your session to the summing box, everything is still in sync because the whole summing insert is delay compensated by ProTools. :)

It’s important to know that ADC with hardware I/O insert is in some cases not 100% sample accurate (with 3rd party interfaces). But you can get it nearly sample sync if you adjust the „H/W Insert Delay“ in I/O setup. But IMO this is only a problem if you do parallel processing with hardware inserts. Not for summing.

I hope this works for you, too.

Thank you

Frank
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2020, 10:19 AM
martthie_08 martthie_08 is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
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Default Re: Analog Summing in PT Ultimate with working ADC - my Solution

Frank, great job that looks fantastic!
Thank you so much for posting this, I'll try it out soon.
herzliche Grüße, Marten

edit:
btw. I'm in Stuttgart too, don't think we've met, have we?
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  #3  
Old 08-23-2020, 01:29 AM
Franklyn Franklyn is offline
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Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 278
Default Re: Analog Summing in PT Ultimate with working ADC - my Solution

another cool thing in this setup:
if for some reasons your summing box is not connected, you can easily deactivate the 2 hardware inserts and work ITB and all stems/groups are routed correctly.
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  #4  
Old 09-02-2020, 05:42 AM
martthie_08 martthie_08 is offline
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Default Re: Analog Summing in PT Ultimate with working ADC - my Solution

ok, I've finally found some time to check this out, it works flawlessly!

Even using non AVID converters, I get sample accurate sync (mind you, probably not sub-sample accurate though) using a trusty old Apogee DA-16x for DA and the Neve 8816 built-in AD on my HD Native mixing rig.

Just a heads up: you WILL loose all the inputs that correspond to the summing outputs on your interface!

In my setup, the output of the summing folder goes to an Aux track that feeds the print track. After recording the mix, I can zoom in on the print track and verify that it is perfectly in sync.

Frank, in your description, I would switch steps 3 and 4 around, this is better for first time users. Thank you so much for geeking this out!
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