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  #1  
Old 12-26-2016, 03:38 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Timing is off. Print or commit and then look at the timing. Random offsets for me(and many others). If Midi is important to your workflow, DO NOT install 12.7 unless you have a backup plan
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Old 12-26-2016, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Awesome thanks.

So you were 12.7 and Win7, right?
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Old 12-26-2016, 06:01 PM
amagras amagras is offline
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Thanks albee.
I can't get Sonivox Orchestral companion to work in 12, as soon as I edit any midi event it stop working
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
Timing is off. Print or commit and then look at the timing. Random offsets for me(and many others). If Midi is important to your workflow, DO NOT install 12.7 unless you have a backup plan
So you're saying that if you commit a MIDI track it'll having a timing offset like I get when playing, say, my Motif XS keyboard off a PT MIDI track and routing the audio back to record in PT?

How can that even be? Its all internal to the computer?
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Old 01-06-2017, 08:13 AM
XJENSEN XJENSEN is offline
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

The MIDI situation in the latest versions of Protools is unfortunately very bad, up to the extent that it's no longer usable for proper composing and arranging. I am also immensely struggling with the above mentioned problem. One of my (many) support cases with Avid is related to this issue. However, it seems to take them a very long time (almost a month now) to even start understanding the problem. This is indicative of the value of that 'support' plan you're paying so much for. I won't even start to mention how many hours of production (and my life for that matter) this kind of 'obvious' bugs has cost me, including filing case reports, being on the phone with Avid, testing to confirm nothing has been solved, and I could go on, well..

Specifically about this problem is that I first believed the timing issues were 1-on-1 related to the currently chosen buffer size, but even that doesn't seem to be the case: It's completely random.

I will report back when I have more news on this one.
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Old 01-07-2017, 08:40 PM
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Well, perhaps I should have described it as "not perfect". I'm not yet convinced that the timing issue makes PT unusable(is "not perfect" actually not usable?). I will try to do some deeper testing tomorrow at the sample level to see how far off that is. I admit that its possible that this discrepancy is within the timing of a human playing a part(which is rarely if ever perfectly aligned to a click). I did find that most things I played back sounded okay when I played 1 version by itself. Its only when playing the original Instrument track AND the frozen or committed tracks together, where the offset was enough to cause mild flanging(in a real mix, this would not be done)

If I have time, I will also run some similar testing with 11.3 by both busing an Instrument track to an AUDIO track, and by Bouncing the Instrument track and importing back into the session
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Last edited by albee1952; 01-08-2017 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Okay, here is today's results:
Took an INSTRUMENT track with EZdrummer. Dropped notes in GRID mode(pencil tool) and verified using Tab to Transient, that each hit was on a grid line(quarter note grid value). Converted to audio via COMMIT, FREEZE and BTD. Session was 24 bit/48K. Showing Samples on the sub-counter, every midi note landed in a sample that ended with xxx000(3 zeroes). Here is what I got with EZdrummer for a couple of bars(starting at 3:00:000)
Midi Note_____FREEZE_____COMMIT_____BTD(and Import)
192000_______192000______192000_______192002
240000_______240018______240018_______240002
288000_______288006______288022_______288002
336000_______336014______336014_______336002
384000_______384022______384022_______384002

That's as much as I will do for now as its tedious Now, the BTD track appears to have a 2 sample offset, which could relate to the 64 buffer setting I am running at. Its interesting that freeze and commit both exhibit the same discrepancy at each note. Having said all this, does this amount of "off-time" matter? The real test of that is your ears. When I play each version by itself, I don't perceive a difference(and its likely well within a "human" playing to a click if the human has excellent meter) And while the original and a freeze/commit version might flange when played together, in the real world, they would never be played together. I guess each of us will need to decide how much this affects our final product
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Last edited by albee1952; 01-08-2017 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:17 PM
amagras amagras is offline
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Great job albee! As you said it shouldn't matter as those values don't make much difference for most music styles but IT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN
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  #9  
Old 01-08-2017, 08:43 PM
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Default Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

Correct it should be 100% exact, and the user given the control to "swing" it as far as they want it...
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  #10  
Old 01-09-2017, 12:47 PM
XJENSEN XJENSEN is offline
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Default Re: Be forewarned. Midi in 12.7 is NOT good

This is amazing. With our setup, audio returned from external instruments is up to 20ms (!!!) late.. We're talking about thousands of samples here..

Last edited by XJENSEN; 01-10-2017 at 03:02 PM.
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