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  #1  
Old 10-23-2012, 07:15 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

I've got an HDX 1TB Firewire 800 hard drive. I bought it from a Pro Tools dealer and they said it was certified. Anyhow, usually it works fine. I've only used about 200g of the drive space. I record a 2 hour dj mix for an internet radio show every week. Typically these sets are recorded in one shot, no edits. When I went to listen to the set I recorded last week, it played back with tons of pops in it (ugh!). I did some research on what the cause could be and I've found that my hard drive is fragmented, a lot!

Question 1 - Why are my files being written, fragmented, when there's plenty of space on the drive for a continuous file?

Question 2- This is the second time this has happened. How do I avoid this? Any settings I can set?

Question 3 - How do I straighten out the drive? I've tried iDefrag and Drive Genius to no avail. Disk Utility verified and repaired the disk with no issues.

Right now I'm cloning the drive to another drive. From what I think I've found out is that OSX clones files, not exact file structure, so hopefully this will straighten out my fragments? There has to be a way to avoid this. And a better way to fix it.

Help!

Thank you in advance!!
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:08 PM
Craig F Craig F is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,591
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

I'd be more suspect of the bridge board in the enclosure than the drive it's self
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Craig
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2012, 08:13 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 12,807
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

There is not a lot of useful information here. We cannot guess what is going on with your system. And I would not rush to assume it is fragmentation. If you want help you need to provide some more useful information. Can you read the "Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!" link above and provide the type of information asked for there. Focus on telling us what you have and what is going on and not exclusively focus so much on what you think might be causing the problem.

Fragmentation is usually just not a practical issues with the OS X extended/journaled filesystem you should be using. How exactly are you determining things are "fragmented". And even if you see some fragmentation why are you assuming that is the cause of problems vs. all the other typical causes of pops/clicks etc?

In addition to pops/clicks what exact error codes have you been seeing (if any)?

What exact drive make/model/specs/interface? This one? http://www.encoredataproducts.com/av...le-hard-drive/, are you are using the Firewire 800 port?

What Audio interface are you using , if Firewire how is it chained with the FW disk(s).

Are you trying to use OS X aggregate IO? Exactly what playback engine is selected in Pro Tools.

What exact OS X version? What filesystem format? How many drives are on the Mac and what are they used for? Is this drive just dedicated to audio sessions? (e.g. any VI samples also on it?)

What does a session look like? how many tracks, what sample rate?, what plugins/how many. What happens when you test with a new dirt simple session, like one stereo track, 44.1 kHz and no plugins etc.

What exact model/specs is you Mac?

What are all your playback engine dialog settings?

Please list exactly what standard optimizations and trouble shooting steps you have done. They are listed under "Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!". Don't just say "all", take the time to go through the list. Things like spotlight indexing running on any of the drives can cause huge IO problems. Also there are many cases where pop/clicking problems are caused by WiFi or bluetooth being left on.

And if after you still have problems what happens when you do a Verify Disk on your drive?

I'd suggest your really stop messing with third party disk tools with your filesystems unless you really know what you are doing. Its just not something you should need to be doing, so don't, and if there is a reason this is happening try to find out why (like a failing drive, some broken third party software silently filling you disk etc.).

Darryl

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyhughes View Post
I've got an HDX 1TB Firewire 800 hard drive. I bought it from a Pro Tools dealer and they said it was certified. Anyhow, usually it works fine. I've only used about 200g of the drive space. I record a 2 hour dj mix for an internet radio show every week. Typically these sets are recorded in one shot, no edits. When I went to listen to the set I recorded last week, it played back with tons of pops in it (ugh!). I did some research on what the cause could be and I've found that my hard drive is fragmented, a lot!

Question 1 - Why are my files being written, fragmented, when there's plenty of space on the drive for a continuous file?

Question 2- This is the second time this has happened. How do I avoid this? Any settings I can set?

Question 3 - How do I straighten out the drive? I've tried iDefrag and Drive Genius to no avail. Disk Utility verified and repaired the disk with no issues.

Right now I'm cloning the drive to another drive. From what I think I've found out is that OSX clones files, not exact file structure, so hopefully this will straighten out my fragments? There has to be a way to avoid this. And a better way to fix it.

Help!

Thank you in advance!!
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2012, 07:55 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

Ok Darryl, Thank you for your quick response. I've sent several hours compiling the information you requested, and going thru the trouble shooting steps this forum suggests. Here's what I have for you:

I went thru the trouble shooting steps, here's the changes I made (this is aggravating because an Avid tech logged on my computer and optimized it for me, apparently not). The following things I changed: Optimize Energy Saver, Turn off WiFi & bluetooth, FireWire networking was already disabled, FileVault was already off, updated iLok drivers, disabled spotlight for ALL drives (only the system disk was before), disables sudden motion sensor, deleted protools databases and preferences, did a clean uninstall and reinstall (restarted computer when directed to), repaired disk permissions, no issues with user accounts, no startup items, check plugin compatibility (I haven't added plugins in months), that completes their steps.

AFTER ALL THAT I opened a test session, 2 stereo tracks, 44.1 sample rate, recorded a 9 minute track from a CD player, thru a Rane mixer, into audio 1-2 of the Digi 002. Only plugin is L3 on the master fader. Played the track back after it recorded in, pops all through it! Starting at 0:10..... Nothing changed.

So here's the answers to your questions:

In addition to pops/clicks what exact error codes have you been seeing (if any)?

>No errors. Just the pops.

What exact drive make/model/specs/interface? This one? http://www.encoredataproducts.com/av...le-hard-drive/, are you are using the Firewire 800 port?

>You have the correct drive. It's connected to the Firewire 800 port. My 002 is connected to the HD via a 800/400 Firewire conversion cable (Avid TS told me to set it up this way).

What Audio interface are you using , if Firewire how is it chained with the FW disk(s).

>Digi 002 Rack. Yes, see above.

Are you trying to use OS X aggregate IO? Exactly what playback engine is selected in Pro Tools.

>Not using aggregate. Using Didi 002.

What exact OS X version?

>OSX 10.8.1

What filesystem format?

>That HDX drive is a dedicated audio drive. I don't write audio to any other drives. It's format is: Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

How many drives are on the Mac and what are they used for?

>One other USB 2.0 drive. This drive is for all my other stuff, movies, sample storage (I move stuff I need to the HDX drive when I decide to use it).

Is this drive just dedicated to audio sessions? (e.g. any VI samples also on it?)

>Yes the HDX is a dedicated audio drive for the sessions. What are VI samples?? (so that answer is definitely a No).

what plugins/how many. What happens when you test with a new dirt simple session, like one stereo track, 44.1 kHz and no plugins etc.

>problem still exists, see above.

What exact model/specs is you Mac?

>MacBook Pro 15" early 2011. 2.0 GHz Intel Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3. AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB graphics.

What are all your playback engine dialog settings?

>Digi 002, 32 Samples, 8 processors, 95%, ignore errors during playback, minimize additional I/O latency, delay compensation engine none, plugin stream buffer size level 2, optimize for streaming unchecked.

Please list exactly what standard optimizations and trouble shooting steps you have done. They are listed under "Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!". Don't just say "all", take the time to go through the list. Things like spotlight indexing running on any of the drives can cause huge IO problems. Also there are many cases where pop/clicking problems are caused by WiFi or bluetooth being left on.

>All this is fixed, see above.

And if after you still have problems what happens when you do a Verify Disk on your drive?

>"The Volume ProTools Work Drive appears to be OK"

I'd suggest your really stop messing with third party disk tools with your filesystems unless you really know what you are doing. Its just not something you should need to be doing, so don't, and if there is a reason this is happening try to find out why (like a failing drive, some broken third party software silently filling you disk etc.).

>Ok. That sounds good to me! Let's solve this!

Thank you SOOOO much for your help!!

Andy :)
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2012, 07:58 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

Ok Darryl, Thank you for your quick response. I've sent several hours compiling the information you requested, and going thru the trouble shooting steps this forum suggests. Here's what I have for you:

I went thru the trouble shooting steps, here's the changes I made (this is aggravating because an Avid tech logged on my computer and optimized it for me, apparently not). The following things I changed: Optimize Energy Saver, Turn off WiFi & bluetooth, FireWire networking was already disabled, FileVault was already off, updated iLok drivers, disabled spotlight for ALL drives (only the system disk was before), disables sudden motion sensor, deleted protools databases and preferences, did a clean uninstall and reinstall (restarted computer when directed to), repaired disk permissions, no issues with user accounts, no startup items, check plugin compatibility (I haven't added plugins in months), that completes their steps.

AFTER ALL THAT I opened a test session, 2 stereo tracks, 44.1 sample rate, recorded a 9 minute track from a CD player, thru a Rane mixer, into audio 1-2 of the Digi 002. Only plugin is L3 on the master fader. Played the track back after it recorded in, pops all through it! Starting at 0:10..... Nothing changed.

So here's the answers to your questions:

In addition to pops/clicks what exact error codes have you been seeing (if any)?

>No errors. Just the pops.

What exact drive make/model/specs/interface? This one? http://www.encoredataproducts.com/av...le-hard-drive/, are you are using the Firewire 800 port?

>You have the correct drive. It's connected to the Firewire 800 port. My 002 is connected to the HD via a 800/400 Firewire conversion cable (Avid TS told me to set it up this way).


What Audio interface are you using , if Firewire how is it chained with the FW disk(s).

>Digi 002 Rack. Yes, see above.

Are you trying to use OS X aggregate IO? Exactly what playback engine is selected in Pro Tools.

>Not using aggregate. Using Didi 002.

What exact OS X version?

>OSX 10.8.1

What filesystem format?

>That HDX drive is a dedicated audio drive. I don't write audio to any other drives. It's format is: Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

How many drives are on the Mac and what are they used for?

>One other USB 2.0 drive. This drive is for all my other stuff, movies, sample storage (I move stuff I need to the HDX drive when I decide to use it).

Is this drive just dedicated to audio sessions? (e.g. any VI samples also on it?)

>Yes the HDX is a dedicated audio drive for the sessions. What are VI samples?? (so that answer is definitely a No).

what plugins/how many. What happens when you test with a new dirt simple session, like one stereo track, 44.1 kHz and no plugins etc.

>problem still exists, see above.

What exact model/specs is you Mac?

>MacBook Pro 15" early 2011. 2.0 GHz Intel Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3. AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB graphics.

What are all your playback engine dialog settings?

>Digi 002, 32 Samples, 8 processors, 95%, ignore errors during playback, minimize additional I/O latency, delay compensation engine none, plugin stream buffer size level 2, optimize for streaming unchecked.

Please list exactly what standard optimizations and trouble shooting steps you have done. They are listed under "Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!". Don't just say "all", take the time to go through the list. Things like spotlight indexing running on any of the drives can cause huge IO problems. Also there are many cases where pop/clicking problems are caused by WiFi or bluetooth being left on.

>All this is fixed, see above.

And if after you still have problems what happens when you do a Verify Disk on your drive?

>"The Volume ProTools Work Drive appears to be OK"

I'd suggest your really stop messing with third party disk tools with your filesystems unless you really know what you are doing. Its just not something you should need to be doing, so don't, and if there is a reason this is happening try to find out why (like a failing drive, some broken third party software silently filling you disk etc.).

>Ok. That sounds good to me! Let's solve this!

Thank you SOOOO much for your help!!

Andy :)
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2012, 08:50 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

Ok Darryl, Thank you for your quick response. I've sent several hours compiling the information you requested, and going thru the trouble shooting steps this forum suggests. Here's what I have for you:

I went thru the trouble shooting steps, here's the changes I made (this is aggravating because an Avid tech logged on my computer and optimized it for me, apparently not). The following things I changed: Optimize Energy Saver, Turn off WiFi & bluetooth, FireWire networking was already disabled, FileVault was already off, updated iLok drivers, disabled spotlight for ALL drives (only the system disk was before), disables sudden motion sensor, deleted protools databases and preferences, did a clean uninstall and reinstall (restarted computer when directed to), repaired disk permissions, no issues with user accounts, no startup items, check plugin compatibility (I haven't added plugins in months), that completes their steps.

AFTER ALL THAT I opened a test session, 2 stereo tracks, 44.1 sample rate, recorded a 9 minute track from a CD player, thru a Rane mixer, into audio 1-2 of the Digi 002. Only plugin is L3 on the master fader. Played the track back after it recorded in, pops all through it! Starting at 0:10..... Nothing changed.

So here's the answers to your questions:

In addition to pops/clicks what exact error codes have you been seeing (if any)?

>No errors. Just the pops.

What exact drive make/model/specs/interface? This one? http://www.encoredataproducts.com/av...le-hard-drive/, are you are using the Firewire 800 port?

>You have the correct drive. It's connected to the Firewire 800 port. My 002 is connected to the HD via a 800/400 Firewire conversion cable (Avid TS told me to set it up this way).


What Audio interface are you using , if Firewire how is it chained with the FW disk(s).

>Digi 002 Rack. Yes, see above.

Are you trying to use OS X aggregate IO? Exactly what playback engine is selected in Pro Tools.

>Not using aggregate. Using Didi 002.

What exact OS X version?

>OSX 10.8.1

What filesystem format?

>That HDX drive is a dedicated audio drive. I don't write audio to any other drives. It's format is: Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

How many drives are on the Mac and what are they used for?

>One other USB 2.0 drive. This drive is for all my other stuff, movies, sample storage (I move stuff I need to the HDX drive when I decide to use it).

Is this drive just dedicated to audio sessions? (e.g. any VI samples also on it?)

>Yes the HDX is a dedicated audio drive for the sessions. What are VI samples?? (so that answer is definitely a No).

what plugins/how many. What happens when you test with a new dirt simple session, like one stereo track, 44.1 kHz and no plugins etc.

>problem still exists, see above.

What exact model/specs is you Mac?

>MacBook Pro 15" early 2011. 2.0 GHz Intel Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3. AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB graphics.

What are all your playback engine dialog settings?

>Digi 002, 32 Samples, 8 processors, 95%, ignore errors during playback, minimize additional I/O latency, delay compensation engine none, plugin stream buffer size level 2, optimize for streaming unchecked.

Please list exactly what standard optimizations and trouble shooting steps you have done. They are listed under "Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!". Don't just say "all", take the time to go through the list. Things like spotlight indexing running on any of the drives can cause huge IO problems. Also there are many cases where pop/clicking problems are caused by WiFi or bluetooth being left on.

>All this is fixed, see above.

And if after you still have problems what happens when you do a Verify Disk on your drive?

>"The Volume ProTools Work Drive appears to be OK"

I'd suggest your really stop messing with third party disk tools with your filesystems unless you really know what you are doing. Its just not something you should need to be doing, so don't, and if there is a reason this is happening try to find out why (like a failing drive, some broken third party software silently filling you disk etc.).

>Ok. That sounds good to me! Let's solve this!

Thank you SOOOO much for your help!!

Andy :)
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2012, 05:38 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

Ok Darryl, Thank you for your quick response. I've sent several hours compiling the information you requested, and going thru the trouble shooting steps this forum suggests. Here's what I have for you:

I went thru the trouble shooting steps, here's the changes I made (this is aggravating because an Avid tech logged on my computer and optimized it for me, apparently not). The following things I changed: Optimize Energy Saver, Turn off WiFi & bluetooth, FireWire networking was already disabled, FileVault was already off, updated iLok drivers, disabled spotlight for ALL drives (only the system disk was before), disables sudden motion sensor, deleted protools databases and preferences, did a clean uninstall and reinstall (restarted computer when directed to), repaired disk permissions, no issues with user accounts, no startup items, check plugin compatibility (I haven't added plugins in months), that completes their steps.

AFTER ALL THAT I opened a test session, 2 stereo tracks, 44.1 sample rate, recorded a 9 minute track from a CD player, thru a Rane mixer, into audio 1-2 of the Digi 002. Only plugin is L3 on the master fader. Played the track back after it recorded in, pops all through it! Starting at 0:10..... Nothing changed.

So here's the answers to your questions:

In addition to pops/clicks what exact error codes have you been seeing (if any)?

>No errors. Just the pops.

What exact drive make/model/specs/interface? This one? http://www.encoredataproducts.com/av...le-hard-drive/, are you are using the Firewire 800 port?

>You have the correct drive. It's connected to the Firewire 800 port. My 002 is connected to the HD via a 800/400 Firewire conversion cable (Avid TS told me to set it up this way).


What Audio interface are you using , if Firewire how is it chained with the FW disk(s).

>Digi 002 Rack. Yes, see above.

Are you trying to use OS X aggregate IO? Exactly what playback engine is selected in Pro Tools.

>Not using aggregate. Using Didi 002.

What exact OS X version?

>OSX 10.8.1

What filesystem format?

>That HDX drive is a dedicated audio drive. I don't write audio to any other drives. It's format is: Mac OS Extended (Journaled).

How many drives are on the Mac and what are they used for?

>One other USB 2.0 drive. This drive is for all my other stuff, movies, sample storage (I move stuff I need to the HDX drive when I decide to use it).

Is this drive just dedicated to audio sessions? (e.g. any VI samples also on it?)

>Yes the HDX is a dedicated audio drive for the sessions. What are VI samples?? (so that answer is definitely a No).

what plugins/how many. What happens when you test with a new dirt simple session, like one stereo track, 44.1 kHz and no plugins etc.

>problem still exists, see above.

What exact model/specs is you Mac?

>MacBook Pro 15" early 2011. 2.0 GHz Intel Core i7, 4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3. AMD Radeon HD 6490M 256 MB graphics.

What are all your playback engine dialog settings?

>Digi 002, 32 Samples, 8 processors, 95%, ignore errors during playback, minimize additional I/O latency, delay compensation engine none, plugin stream buffer size level 2, optimize for streaming unchecked.

Please list exactly what standard optimizations and trouble shooting steps you have done. They are listed under "Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!". Don't just say "all", take the time to go through the list. Things like spotlight indexing running on any of the drives can cause huge IO problems. Also there are many cases where pop/clicking problems are caused by WiFi or bluetooth being left on.

>All this is fixed, see above.

And if after you still have problems what happens when you do a Verify Disk on your drive?

>"The Volume ProTools Work Drive appears to be OK"

I'd suggest your really stop messing with third party disk tools with your filesystems unless you really know what you are doing. Its just not something you should need to be doing, so don't, and if there is a reason this is happening try to find out why (like a failing drive, some broken third party software silently filling you disk etc.).

>Ok. That sounds good to me! Let's solve this!

Thank you SOOOO much for your help!!

Andy :)
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2012, 06:18 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

This forum is worthless. I spent 4 hours going thru all the stuff and compiling the information Darryl asked for and for 2 days now I've been trying to post the answers. What is going on??!!
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2012, 06:19 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

Now how come that posted??!! What?
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2012, 06:21 PM
andyhughes andyhughes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 20
Default Re: External hard drive fragmenting - Help!

Alright, I guess I'll post my response in segments. Part 1:


Ok Darryl, Thank you for your quick response. I've sent several hours compiling the information you requested, and going thru the trouble shooting steps this forum suggests. Here's what I have for you:

I went thru the trouble shooting steps, here's the changes I made (this is aggravating because an Avid tech logged on my computer and optimized it for me, apparently not). The following things I changed: Optimize Energy Saver, Turn off WiFi & bluetooth, FireWire networking was already disabled, FileVault was already off, updated iLok drivers, disabled spotlight for ALL drives (only the system disk was before), disables sudden motion sensor, deleted protools databases and preferences, did a clean uninstall and reinstall (restarted computer when directed to), repaired disk permissions, no issues with user accounts, no startup items, check plugin compatibility (I haven't added plugins in months), that completes their steps.

AFTER ALL THAT I opened a test session, 2 stereo tracks, 44.1 sample rate, recorded a 9 minute track from a CD player, thru a Rane mixer, into audio 1-2 of the Digi 002. Only plugin is L3 on the master fader. Played the track back after it recorded in, pops all through it! Starting at 0:10..... Nothing changed.

So here's the answers to your questions:

In addition to pops/clicks what exact error codes have you been seeing (if any)?

>No errors. Just the pops.

What exact drive make/model/specs/interface? This one? http://www.encoredataproducts.com/av...le-hard-drive/, are you are using the Firewire 800 port?

>You have the correct drive. It's connected to the Firewire 800 port. My 002 is connected to the HD via a 800/400 Firewire conversion cable (Avid TS told me to set it up this way).
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