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  #21  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:17 AM
mr.armadillo mr.armadillo is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaudio View Post
the OP asked what the difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete was. There is no difference.
Well, there is indeed a difference between "5.1" and "5.1 discrete": "5.1 discrete" compulsery means: "6 dedicated, separate channels" (not encoded AC3, DTS) while 5.1 can be anything. Period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaudio View Post
Minister stated that 5.1 audio files were discrete and AC3 DTS ect were not because it had to be decoded.
Well, I do have good news for you: Minister is right. An AC3 by itself isn't "discrete", but - it decodes into discrete channels. It's semantics. You can put it to a rest.
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  #22  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:22 AM
mr.armadillo mr.armadillo is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

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Originally Posted by minister View Post
Delivering discrete 5.1 means delivering 6 separate audio files. Not an AC3, not a DTS, not a Dolby E file.
What Tom said initially.
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  #23  
Old 08-15-2011, 12:14 PM
lexaudio lexaudio is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

Then interleave is not discrete
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  #24  
Old 08-15-2011, 02:47 PM
mr.armadillo mr.armadillo is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

You're funny.
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  #25  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:23 PM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.armadillo View Post
Well, there is indeed a difference between "5.1" and "5.1 discrete": "5.1 discrete" compulsery means: "6 dedicated, separate channels" (not encoded AC3, DTS) while 5.1 can be anything. Period.

Well, I do have good news for you: Minister is right. An AC3 by itself isn't "discrete", but - it decodes into discrete channels. It's semantics. You can put it to a rest.
I'm afraid I cannot agree with these statements.

The term "discrete" is one of two basic terms used to describe the channel encoding of various surround sound formats. Surround sound channels are encoded as either "discrete" channels or as "matrixed" channels, although the Dolby Digital EX format uses a combination of both. AC3, DTS and Dolby E are discrete formats, Dolby Surround and Dolby Pro Logic are matrixed formats.

Answering the OP; there is potentially a difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete. There are a number of different 5.1 formats and to the best of my knowledge they are all discrete except for Dolby Pro Logic II (which is matrixed). So in theory there could be a difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete.

If you have a delivery spec requiring 5.1 or 5.1 discrete, I would make a phone call and clarify what exactly they want. The terms "5.1" and "5.1 discrete" both describe groups of surround formats rather than a specific required delivery format. Delivery specs sometimes seem to be written by admin staff and are often vague and sometimes even contradictory.

G
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  #26  
Old 08-15-2011, 06:26 PM
dr sound dr sound is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

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Originally Posted by Greg Malcangi View Post
I'm afraid I cannot agree with these statements.

G
Greg,
I can not agree with you. When a client asks for 5.1 discrete they are asking for a digital copy of the original 5.1 sound Mix NOT an AC3, matrixed or anything such as that. The reason for asking for the discrete is for archiving or creation of other elements such as a AC3. You don't hand a client a compressed format when they ask for discrete.
Yes the Dolby Digital track is discrete tracks but it is a compressed format.
Unless specifically requested that is the way deliverables are specifically spelled out.
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  #27  
Old 08-15-2011, 07:42 PM
lexaudio lexaudio is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

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Originally Posted by dr sound View Post
Greg,
I can not agree with you. When a client asks for 5.1 discrete they are asking for a digital copy of the original 5.1 sound Mix NOT an AC3, matrixed or anything such as that. The reason for asking for the discrete is for archiving or creation of other elements such as a AC3. You don't hand a client a compressed format when they ask for discrete.
Yes the Dolby Digital track is discrete tracks but it is a compressed format.
Unless specifically requested that is the way deliverables are specifically spelled out.
Typically asked, 5.1 uncompressed or 6 track uncompressed.

Discrete channels for playback.
Discrete files, ie uncompressed 5.1 files.

Dolby does describe Dolby Digital as, containing up to six discrete channels of sound.

I think the difference in what we are all talking about here is discrete in delivery to the client, and discrete channel playback from whatever medium.

AC3 plays back your 6 channel mix.
Your client gets 6 audio files, uncompressed, that can be turned into any encoded file for discrete 6 channel playback.
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  #28  
Old 08-15-2011, 11:40 PM
Greg Malcangi Greg Malcangi is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr sound View Post
Greg,
I can not agree with you. When a client asks for 5.1 discrete they are asking for a digital copy of the original 5.1 sound Mix NOT an AC3, matrixed or anything such as that. The reason for asking for the discrete is for archiving or creation of other elements such as a AC3. You don't hand a client a compressed format when they ask for discrete.
Yes the Dolby Digital track is discrete tracks but it is a compressed format.
Unless specifically requested that is the way deliverables are specifically spelled out.
Hi Marti,

I think the difference is between the dictionary definition of the word "discrete" and the audio term "discrete" as employed by Dolby. As Lexaudio mentioned, Dolby themselves describe DD as six discrete channels. I have always taken discrete to basically mean "not matrixed" and therefore the term "discrete" does not by itself define the delivery format.

I agree with you though, I too have had clients ask for discrete 5.1 and I generally assume they are unaware of the audio terminology, are using the word discrete as per the dictionary definition and actually require 6 individual audio files. I would never deliver anything in a compressed format unless I was absolutely certain that's exactly what the client wanted. If the specs just asked for 5.1 discrete (without providing more information), I personally would make a call to clarify, just in case they want delivery on a DTRS! Although the implication these days is for 6 bwavs, they might want AIFFs or even a poly wav!

I'm not going to argue with someone of your experience and knowledge though Marti and I'm willing to accept that I've got my terminology wrong for all these years. I just need a tiny little bit more persuading

G
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  #29  
Old 08-17-2011, 06:10 AM
tom_lowe tom_lowe is offline
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Default Re: Difference between 5.1 and 5.1 discrete

I think we're all agreeing, you just don't realise it yet :-P
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