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Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win)

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  #1  
Old 01-19-2011, 10:07 PM
tha]-[acksaw tha]-[acksaw is offline
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Default Swing The Grid Lines?

Can someone please help me out here. I'm pretty darn shure I used to be able to do this within ProTools. I havent done it since I moved to PT8.

All I want to do is swing the 16th note grid lines, in the Edit Window, by a numeric value. Can anyone help me out with this?
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  #2  
Old 01-20-2011, 06:44 PM
filosofem filosofem is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

MIDI Real Time Properties - Quantize.
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  #3  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:19 PM
tha]-[acksaw tha]-[acksaw is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by filosofem View Post
MIDI Real Time Properties - Quantize.
I'm clear on how to Quantize audio and midi.

To be more clear. I have a drum performance that has a swing feel in the 16th notes. I don't want to quantize the performance but rather slip a few hits, here or there, to make it a little tighter. If I could move the 16th notes grid lines to be a more accurate representation of the real swing of the song, then it would make the drum editing a lot easier. Then all the 16th grid lines would be in "feel" with the actual performance, and I could see visually which ones were off.

Can you adjust the grid lines in the Edit Window, or do they have to be perfect intervals based on the tempo? Somethings that swing won't be at perfect intervals. Thats the point of swing, right?

Thanks for any help guys!
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  #4  
Old 01-20-2011, 11:57 PM
filosofem filosofem is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

There is only one way to align the Grid and that is via Bar/Beat Marker Generation with Beat Detective but that will align the Grid to every transient not the swing interval for lack of a better word. However you can extract a Groove Template and apply that Groove with either MIDI Real-Time Properties or Elastic Audio.
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  #5  
Old 01-21-2011, 01:51 AM
DJ Hellfire DJ Hellfire is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

Swing is measured in percentage, not grid resolution. So what you are asking has nothing to do with the grid line placement. The grid lines are precisely placed according to BPM, which is the view your timeline should be in when composing. You can set the grid lines to samples, and time as well, but like I said, Bars and Beats is what it should be on when composing. The only way to change the grid line spacing is to change the session tempo, which does nothing for your swing.

So like filo said, what you want to do is quantize your drums and maybe select an MPC type of swing of maybe 55-63% set to 1/16th notes. Otherwise you will have to either try to get your desired timing feel during your recording performance, or separate each drum hit and manually nudge them to the feel you want!
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2011, 03:39 PM
tha]-[acksaw tha]-[acksaw is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

Thank you both for your time, and input. I'm not sure we are totally on the same page as far as what I'm needing to do. Forgive me if I'm wrong. I'm really not looking to Quantize these drums at all. The drummer played to a 16 note shaker (click), that I quantized to grid with a 60% swing on the 16th notes. The drum performance is pretty rock solid, except when he does a few fills. For some reason he was tending to playing the 16th notes within those fills a bit closer to grid then to the swing of the song. More of a straight feel then a swing feel. So I'm editing all these parts to fix the lack of swing. When I've edited drums in the past, to a 16th note without a swing, I can use the grid as a visual reference. But if there is a swing on the 16th notes, the 16 note grid is no longer a visual reference point, cause the swing won't be on grid. The grid will have a straight ahead feel, if you will.

Regardless, I think filosofem got me thinking about something when he mentioned Bar/Beat Marker Generation. I use that often, just as filosofem said, to put a gird around a song that was played free form, with no click. But I never thought to use it as a tool to add swing to the current grid. It seems I'm not the only one who missed this cause there are several threads on the DUC where people have asked about swinging the grid, and no one seemed to be able to offer any help. So to anyone who might be interested, here's what I did.

For me, the whole idea is based around a "perfect grid" in a single tempo, with a consistent swing value on all the 16th notes. Basically just like the normal grid in ProTools, but with swing feel instead of straight ahead feel. The idea is to use it as a visual reference while editing. So, I created a midi track and filled in every 1/4, 1/8th and 1/16th note for the length of my song. I hit Alt 0 to open Event Operations. Set it to Quantize, 16th notes, and changed the swing value to 60%, then hit Apply. So now all the midi notes are pegged on grid, expect the 16th notes that are pegged to the swing value of my song. Now I highlight my whole midi track (the length of my song), and open Bar/Beat Marker Generation. I set the Operation to Midi for Bar/Beat Marker Generation. I make sure the Capture part says 16th notes, and then hit Capture Selection. Next, move right and hit Analyze, then drag the sensitivity till it grabs all the midi notes. Hit Generate, an your done. It will move all the 16th note grid lines to your swing value. Now you have a visual reference when editing a song with a swing.

It's kind of a no brainer once you think about it, but I don't think most people use the tool in this fashion. Most people I know use it to map out something that isn't' a perfect grid, or wasnt done to a click.

Again, thanks for your help guys!
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2011, 04:53 PM
filosofem filosofem is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

Alternatively, create a click track with swing, extract a groove and apply that groove using EA. Although no visual reference, you know the groove is true because you mapped the swing.
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  #8  
Old 01-21-2011, 05:18 PM
guitar486 guitar486 is online now
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

You could draw 16 midi notes, quantize them to the swing value you want, then enlarge that track and move it just above/below the track you want to examine. It's definitely a workaround, but might get you what you need for this project. I'm pretty sure you can't swing the built in gridlines. This would be a great feature though, I hope Avid is listening!
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  #9  
Old 01-21-2011, 05:43 PM
tha]-[acksaw tha]-[acksaw is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by filosofem View Post
Alternatively, create a click track with swing, extract a groove and apply that groove using EA. Although no visual reference, you know the groove is true because you mapped the swing.
If I did that, then I would loose the human nature of the drum performance. I'm not looking to quantize to a grid, or a groove template or a click track or anything. I just wanted to move the 16th note grid lines to reflect a swing feel, instead of the straight ahead feel. Check out these pics I found in another thread. Thats all I was trying to do.

Grid Without Swing: http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6...dio1swinga.png

Grid With Swing:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2...dio1swingb.png

I haven't found a thread yet that gives an explanation of how to make this happen. Several thread have go as far as to say its not possible. If you follow my work flow in the post above, you can get the grid lines to move to conform to any swing value, no problem.
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  #10  
Old 01-21-2011, 05:48 PM
tha]-[acksaw tha]-[acksaw is offline
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Default Re: Swing The Grid Lines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar486 View Post
You could draw 16 midi notes, quantize them to the swing value you want, then enlarge that track and move it just above/below the track you want to examine. It's definitely a workaround, but might get you what you need for this project. I'm pretty sure you can't swing the built in gridlines. This would be a great feature though, I hope Avid is listening!
It can be done. I figured it out this morning. Here is how you do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw View Post
For me, the whole idea is based around a "perfect grid" in a single tempo, with a consistent swing value on all the 16th notes. Basically just like the normal grid in ProTools, but with swing feel instead of straight ahead feel. The idea is to use it as a visual reference while editing. So, I created a midi track and filled in every 1/4, 1/8th and 1/16th note for the length of my song. I hit Alt 0 to open Event Operations. Set it to Quantize, 16th notes, and changed the swing value to 60%, then hit Apply. So now all the midi notes are pegged on grid, expect the 16th notes that are pegged to the swing value of my song. Now I highlight my whole midi track (the length of my song), and open Bar/Beat Marker Generation. I set the Operation to Midi for Bar/Beat Marker Generation. I make sure the Capture part says 16th notes, and then hit Capture Selection. Next, move right and hit Analyze, then drag the sensitivity till it grabs all the midi notes. Hit Generate, an your done. It will move all the 16th note grid lines to your swing value. Now you have a visual reference when editing a song with a swing.
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