Avid Pro Audio Community

Pro Tools 11 Information

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post | Community Terms of Use | Avid.com Home Page

Google the Forum | Search Knowledge Base | Search Avid.com

Find Support | Support FAQ | Avid Support How To Video Series

Software Updates, Drivers, Manuals, Compatibility, Troubleshooting, etc. (Links)

Please post your message once only to the correct forum
Help us Help You - READ THIS Before Posting!

Avid at NAB 2014








Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Tips & Tricks

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-17-2005, 11:50 AM
mastermorris mastermorris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 82
Default Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

I am in the process of recording drums for my up and coming demo that I am making and need some advice from the experts on getting that "punchy" kick drum sound. I'm miking my drum with an external preamp running a light pipe connection to protools. How do I create the punchy kick drum sound after recording the drums. Also, on what level should I record the kick; do I peak the signal and then adjust? Do I barely peak the signal? or DO I get the level at below the peak indicator? What effects do I use also to accomplish this? Thanks for everyone's time!

Rm
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-17-2005, 03:15 PM
ejwells's Avatar
ejwells ejwells is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 4,508
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

Alot of getting a good kick drum sound has to do with 1/ the drum and beater itself 2/ the mike(s) and how it's/they're placed 3/ the drummer, and his attack.

I use (at least) 2 mikes on the kick.

Currently, my choices are a D112 and an RE20. One close to the head, one outside the drum, or farther away from the head. Which goes where varies for me.
Oft times I'll put a large diaphram condenser about 4 feet in front of the kick, then place a heavy blanket over the kick drum, extending out to a stool behind the stand that the condenser is on. A poor man's kick drum tunnel.
Try all sorts of stuff, that's my philosophy

I tend to try get a signal that's fairly close to 0db. I've found that recording at 24/44.1 it doesn't really matter that much, as long as you don't clip. An occasional foray into the red doesn't hurt (too much). If I need more, I can boost it with an eq or compressor plug.

EQ has much to do with the punchy kick sound. Pulling out some mids helps, putting in some high "snap" helps.

Slap a 4 band eq on there and mess around.

When it sounds good, stop messing!

I also like this trick:
http://badhabitstudios.com/images/kikTrik.jpg

Thanks to Bad Habit Studios for turning me on to that.

Give it a whirl, you'll see a whole new world opening up.
__________________
Pro Tools 10.3.3 | HD Native | HD I/O 8x8x8 | Mac Pro 8 Core Westmere | 24GB RAM | OSX Lion 10.7.4 | API 3124 | Chandler TG-2 | UA 4-710d | Empirical Labs Distressor EL8X | Kemper Rack |
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-17-2005, 07:51 PM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,175
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

As for signals, try to get above the halfway mark and then some. When you get to tracking, the drummer will likely hit it harder, so you'll have saved some headroom.

Aim the inside mic at the point where beater meets head. If this gives you too much "attack", back the mic off, or aim if off-center slightly. An additional mic on the outside of the front head (a large diaphragm dynamic is good, but any condenser can work) will give you some low-end "thump" to play with. Try placing that mic in close but off to the side, and muffle that front head a bit.

For EQ, try cutting in the 350-500 Hz range, to clean up the "mud". Try boosting around 4kHz for more attack.

I noticed you wrote "after recording". Get the sound you want going in. It ALWAYS sounds better at mixdown.

You can also use a limiter or compressor to even out the hits. Just be careful not to quash the "thwack" too much.
__________________
002R PT7.3.1
MacBook Pro 2.33
OS 10.4.8
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-17-2005, 08:29 PM
bb_aus bb_aus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,689
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

start with the drum and the mic and positing it makes all the difference
try and understand the sound of the drum. there are 2 parts to a kick sound the oompth and the click, you need to work on both
what type of music is it? what mic(s) are you using
cut out lots of low mid, 250-300Hz, work the poitiong for more oompth from the proximity effect, boost a bit of click if needed. compress to taste but get as much of the soudn from the mic first
the signal generator can be a good band aid solution if your stuck with a crap kick sound, ive used it a few time to great effect but it doesnt sound real enough for me. its certainly no substute for getting it right in the first place
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-18-2005, 12:58 AM
NickH NickH is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Henley-On-Thames, UK
Posts: 600
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

Just a couple of things I would like to add to what has already been said:-

I agree with the mid E.Q. & for metal I will somtimes plunge out from 250 - 500.

Tuning of the kick is uber important, if you haven’t already got one invest in a (Drumdial or Tama Tension watch) tympanic pressure tuner, this will help with all your drums not just the kick…

Loose all the laundry, get rid of all the blankets/pillows/foam/bubblewrap & all the other rubbish that drummer that can’t be bothered to tune there kick properly throw in there… After its tuned well if it still rings too much through the mic & after you put a starting point e.q. on your channel put on an Aquarian Super kick II or Evans EMAD, if they are not available, make one of these:-

http://www.professionaldrummer.com/l...mDampening.asp

I am very squirrelly about using more than one mic directly on a kick drum, some very talented & experienced people use 2 or more mics to great effect… but usually these folks are searching for something very specific, maybe a few fine frequencies for shimmer or some other personal holy grail that they have been searching for 30 years. But chances are every one of these people could get a amazing kick sound with the one mic & there is a strong possibility 99.9% of what you hear in that final mix is just that one mic properly positioned… And more importantly these people all know and understand how to deal with the very in depth & complicated phasing issues that can come from using 2 or more mic’s on the kick & come up & bite you on the ass much later on in your mix… We already have a lot of mic’s on the rest of the drum kit, that pick the kick drum up & add all sorts of issues of there own, lets not make things worse at this stage…

An APHEX 204 Aural Exciter & Optical Big Bottom can work wonders on a kick drum sound and can give you masses of low end & attack if needed …(the lucky HD folks can get this as a plugin I use the plugin at work & the rack unit at home & the plugin is very good…)

Hope some of this helps

Cheers



N
__________________
“It’s because you touch yourself at night... ”
System Specs
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-18-2005, 08:21 AM
chrisnyc chrisnyc is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 9
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

Quote:

I also like this trick:
http://badhabitstudios.com/images/kikTrik.jpg

Is the signal only supposed to trigger when the gate is open? Couldn't get that to work quite right.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-18-2005, 10:19 AM
Naagzh Naagzh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,175
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

Quote:
Quote:


I also like this trick:
http://badhabitstudios.com/images/kikTrik.jpg




Is the signal only supposed to trigger when the gate is open? Couldn't get that to work quite right.

Yep. When the gate is opened by the bass drum, the signal generator is allowed to emit a low tone until the gate closes, providing extra low-end thump. Adjust the threshold so that the gate only opens when the bass drum has been struck. Adjust the attack, hold, and decay so that the 65 Hz tone arrives and goes away smoothly yet quickly.

This trick is not designed for "punch", as you wrote originally; instead, you'll get more "oomph". IMHO, this trick is best suited to pop, funk, and R&B, less so for punk and metal. If you're stuck with a mushy bass drum track, and there's no way to re-track the drums, your best bet is to EQ the heck out of it. If that doesn't work, try blending in a sampled kick underneath the original. Granted, it's tedious work, but even a cheap drum machine could have a useful kick on it.
__________________
002R PT7.3.1
MacBook Pro 2.33
OS 10.4.8
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-29-2005, 11:27 PM
davec davec is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 651
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)


I've been able to create a great sounding Metal Kick from a mushy recorded thump with the combination of a 4-band EQ and an Expander/Gate. You can also use a compressor/limiter to boost/even out the volume and cut out the frequencies you don't want. Believe me, I really had a bad recording for the kick and literally transformed it into a solid Metal Kick using the above method.


Peace...
__________________
Peace...

--davec
StudioFX Multimedia
SpellWell Software
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-04-2005, 05:14 AM
max cooper max cooper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 438
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

I love that the article is about "Dampening" a kick drum. Dampening is when you get something wet. Damping is probably what they mean, huh?

If you want a bada** kick sound, try an API 560 EQ.
__________________
664 The Neighbor of the Beast
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-04-2005, 10:00 AM
Boombatty Boombatty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: London, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 118
Default Re: Creating a good kick drum sound (punchy)

Actually, dampening is the correct term. There are two definitions:

1. make slightly wet : the fine rain dampened her face.
2 make less strong or intense : nothing could dampen her enthusiasm.


Cheers,
Matt
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Getting that punchy, pumping kick sound DonaldM The Drum Room 11 11-25-2011 08:19 PM
making a Kick drum in a loop sound good. Jayoel 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 2 01-27-2009 10:18 PM
OT: Mastering: Getting a punchy Kick Drum yarrick19 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 3 09-27-2005 12:21 PM
Good Kick Drum Sound... Daniel_Isaiah 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 13 07-16-2002 12:50 AM
tight and punchy kick drum usinare Tips & Tricks 9 06-01-2002 03:50 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:42 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com