Embed rigs broken?

[sleepingtiger]

I'm having a struggle with embedding rigs. I'm running PT 11.3.2 HD with a Lynx Aurora into a Digigrid DLI via the LT-HD card. I just transitioned from a TDM setup and for a short time before setting this up I used the Eleven Rack as my interface. During that time I was able to embed rigs as expected without a problem.

Now, when I'm using the 11R as a peripheral connected by sp/dif I cannot get it to embed rigs. After trashing prefs and doing all the usual maintenance stuff I'm able to go to the I/O panel input section and select the input to embed from. When I select that input I get the fancy "E" on the track but when I hit stop after recording there's no embedded info in the audio file. The fancy "E" doesn't show up in the file and when I right click on it there's none of the usual options for loading the embedded rig into the 11R. I've attached a screenshot so you can see what I'm describing.

What am I missing? Any help wuold be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Darryl Ramm]

I have no real idea here, but I'll ask the silly questions to get them out of the way....

Is the Eleven Rack connected to the computer via USB?

What version Eleven Rack driver is installed on your computer?

Do you have the Eleven Rack stand alone editor installed? If so does it work OK to the Eleven Rack? I just want to make sure the MIDI communication side of the Eleven Rack is alive and working. If the editor is not installed maybe install it to check things are woking OK.

For the heck of it try a USB 2 port, or a different USB 2 port (not a hub if you are using one).

How many Eleven Rack devices are showing up in Windows Device manager? (Cue Benoni...)

[sleepingtiger]

Thanks for your response, Darryl!

Yes, connected by USB. I actually had the wrong driver installed. I had misread the info on the driver page. I had 1.1.9 but updated to 1.1.10. Regardless, I'm still experiencing the same behavior with both drivers.

I do have the editor installed and yes, it communicates as expected. I tried another USB port with the same result - no hub. Under USB controllers in Device Manager the only thing labeled as Eleven Rack is one instance of "Avid Eleven Rack DFU".

I did get the phantom "can't communicate with Eleven Rack #2" message but eliminated that by unchecking duplicate entries in the MIDI Inputs window.

I'm attempting to embed through the analog outputs of the 11R into my Lynx but I also attempted to embed from the DI which is coming in through the sp/dif out of the 11R into a digital in on my rig. Same results either way.

Another slightly strange behavior is that when I record while trying to embed, upon hitting "stop" with the space bar, the computer takes an unusually long time (5 seconds or so) to show the recorded file. It's like the computer is "thinking about it" before deciding not to embed.

Any other input is most welcome!

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by sleepingtiger

I'm attempting to embed through the analog outputs of the 11R into my Lynx but I also attempted to embed from the DI which is coming in through the sp/dif out of the 11R into a digital in on my rig. Same results either way.
/QUOTE]

It really should never matter where you are embedding, Pro Tools is just grabbing stuff over USB/MIDI and sticking it where you tell it.

QUOTE]
Another slightly strange behavior is that when I record while trying to embed, upon hitting "stop" with the space bar, the computer takes an unusually long time (5 seconds or so) to show the recorded file. It's like the computer is "thinking about it" before deciding not to embed.
!

I'm generally stuck here, but this maybe gives more of a clue what I'd pursue and try to make this pause behavior go away.

I'd also maybe go back and checking if when the Eleven Rack is used as an interface that Pro Tools saves the rig data OK.

And for this slow save behavior: start (as always) by trashing prefs. Check over general optimizations and try temporarily removing all third party plugins from both the plugin folder (just drag all plugins out of the folder and let Pro Tools put it's default back). Weird slow pauses/hangs can be plugin related. Also try a new empty session... corrupted sessions might also explain things here.

[sleepingtiger]

Thanks again. Yeah, I agree that the pause behavior seems like a good clue. When used it as an interface it definitely did what it was supposed to as far as embedding. When I have more time in a couple of days I will likely go into a deeper trouble shooting mode (removing plugins etc) but, honestly, this rig is now running so solidly without the 11R involved that I'm hesitant to think that will solve it. No reason not to try though.

Another thing that I didn't mention is that the editor will hide itself and Pro Tools if I minimize either. I was aware of the but that makes it hide itself but didn't know it would hide Pro Tools too.

After what I've seen from the 11R, its drivers and the accompanying editor since I started trying to work with it a few weeks ago, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's just a very poorly supported piece of hardware. I would still like to get it functioning fully though so any further advise or guidance is appreciated!

[Darryl Ramm]

Yep, the team that developed and gave just fantastic great support for the Eleven Rack are long gone. Some at Line 6, maybe in a way the Line 6 Helix is really the Eleven Rack Mk. II, it's certainly way better than anything Line6 has produced before. Others elsewhere. Avid porting the old plugins based editor over to a standalone editor was a nice thing, but I see it as pretty much the last effort from Avid. Everything more recent has been re-porting Eleven Rack stuff to plugins, which OK was nice but I wonder if that was recycling what they have and could throw at a contractor/Global Logic to do for them. I am happy to keep using the Eleven Rack but there are lots of other fantastic choices out there, Fractal Axe-FX obviously, the Line 6 Helix, Bias software, and many more.

[sleepingtiger]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Yep, the team that developed and gave just fantastic great support for the Eleven Rack are long gone. Some at Line 6, maybe in a way the Line 6 Helix is really the Eleven Rack Mk. II, it's certainly way better than anything Line6 has produced before. Others elsewhere. Avid porting the old plugins based editor over to a standalone editor was a nice thing, but I see it as pretty much the last effort from Avid. Everything more recent has been re-porting Eleven Rack stuff to plugins, which OK was nice but I wonder if that was recycling what they have and could throw at a contractor/Global Logic to do for them. I am happy to keep using the Eleven Rack but there are lots of other fantastic choices out there, Fractal Axe-FX obviously, the Line 6 Helix, Bias software, and many more.

Yeah, it's a shame that it's seemingly getting hung out to dry. I can't sing the blues too much though, I got it for cheap and I'm fortunate enough to already have a Kemper with 900+ rigs in it so I'm not shortchanged on a variety of excellent guitar tones. The attractive thing about the 11R is the (alleged) PT integration. I love the Kemper but there's no integration at all so I get a little tired of making notes. The idea of going nuts with the controls and then just embedding the settings sounds like a lot of fun but it's no fun at all when it causes more problems than it solves. Oh well, even if I can't embed I'll still get some mileage out of it if I can figure out how to get it to stop hiding Pro Tools from me. I especially like some of the bass tones I've gotten from it. Saving the settings like a plugin or just writing them down isn't that big of a deal.

Thanks again!

[Benoni]

For the Eleven Rack #2 error, unchecking the MIDI duplicates will work, but those phantom unused drivers are still on your system. Not sure if that could be an issue for the Embedded Rigs, but you may want to clear out Device Manager.

Eleven Rack #2 Communication Error - Why it Happens and How to Fix it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d802nCX_s3Y

Sometimes, for whatever reason I'm not sure, you can't load the embedded rig by right clicking. Have you tried loading the Embedded Rig from the Clips List?

Eleven Rack - Load Embedded Rig Settings from the Clips List
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8idezAAH34

And you also have the Eleven Rack connected via USB right?

[sleepingtiger]

Thanks for your reply, Benoni!

Despite only seeing the 2 appropriate entries for the 11R in Device Manager (with hidden devices shown) I painstakingly went through the procedure in your first video. Same result - the phantom 11R was still there. I checked again, no multiple entries - nothing hidden (I went through every device on the machine). I went through the procedure again, checking for multiple and hidden entries all along the way, I never saw anything amiss but still, phantom 11R is still there. So... do you know of anywhere else these components could be hidden? Is there anything else I should be doing like removing the editor prefs, etc. (I've done all the standard troubleshooting and optimization stuff - this system is spot on other than the 11R stuff). Any further thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated. I have a feeling these leftover driver components are probably causing this but at this point I'm at a loss.

As far as loading embedded rig info, it doesn't matter where I try to do it from, there's apparently never been anything embedded in the first place. The "E" isn't in the overview of the audio file and no matter how I approach there's no option to load information from the file.

Thanks again!

[Benoni]

The first thing to try would be to use the Eleven Rack as the playback engine. Turn off or disconnect any other audio devices.

After you make certain that everything works, then start adding in the other pieces of audio gear.

Do embedded rigs work with just the Eleven Rack connected?