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  #11  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:32 AM
RyanC RyanC is offline
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

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Originally Posted by soundasleep View Post
You only get 32x32 with Red4 to RED8 pre boxes - even though they have digilink ports for 64.
Are you sure? I thought if you connect both digilink ports you get 64x64, 32 via dante and 32 via analog/adat.

I'm using via TB so limited to 32 in PT|U, but get all 64 in other apps (yet another reason I'm migrating away from PT...)
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  #12  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

It all depends. If you use ASIO driver for anything, it is first 32 i/o period. If you have HDN and digilink interfaces, you get 64 i/o. If you have HDX your i/o is limited by your hardware.
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:48 AM
made made is offline
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

If you're on a Mac and use a Core Audio driver then PT Ultimate is limiting your i/o to 32. If you are using a driver with more than 32 i/o it will show all i/os in the i/o setup but you can't use any input or output above 32.
This is a ProTools limitation, not Core Audio.

On every other DAW I'm using (DP, Reaper etc) I can access all i/os of my Core Audio setup (my maximum was 160 i/os so far)
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2020, 05:50 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

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Originally Posted by made View Post
This is a ProTools limitation, not Core Audio.
Of course it is, mentioned multiple times already. But hey, one more time: only way to get +32 i/o is to use HDN or HDX hardware, anything else and you are only seeing first 32 i/o
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  #15  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:31 PM
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JCBigler JCBigler is offline
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

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Originally Posted by soundasleep View Post
In short - yes. You have to have PT Ultimate, but it ALSO has to "see" a digilink interface, via HDX or HD Native. Dante alone only gets you 32. BTW, You only get 32x32 with Red4 to RED8 pre boxes - even though they have digilink ports for 64.
32x32 with any interface, but 64x64 (or up to 192x192) with enough digilink interfaces connected, using the HDNative or HDX playback engines.
This is incorrect.

Yes, the Red 8 Pre only has 32 channels from Dante, but that is the limitation of the interface it self. You can ALSO use the on-board inputs from the Red 4/8Pre/16Line interfaces to get more than 32 inputs. You can also use a Dante to Digilink interface like the Focusrite HD32R for another 32 channels of Dante in to Protools.

I have the Red 8Pre and have done more than 32 channels with HD Native. You can use two interfaces like the Focusrite Red 4/8Pre/16Line both connected to the primary mini-Digilink port on the HD Native or HDx cards to get up to 64 inputs. If you need more than 64 inputs, then you have to go to HDx and use multiple cards.

There are other interfaces out there that have the mini-Digilink ports that will allow more than 32 i/o with Protools Ultimate and HD Native/HDx. But I'm not as familiar with them. The Apogee Symphony I/O Mk II, Lynx Aurora, and the Waves Digigrid DLI, and the Antelope Orin HD inertness all have two Digilink ports and will get more than 32 inputs into Protools. (The Antelope Galaxy has a whopping FOUR Digilink ports on it for 128 inputs if you have multiple HDx cards.

I think Avid hardware is the only way to get MADI in to Protools though.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2020, 06:12 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

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Originally Posted by JFreak View Post
Of course it is, mentioned multiple times already. But hey, one more time: only way to get +32 i/o is to use HDN or HDX hardware, anything else and you are only seeing first 32 i/o
There's a workaround with UAD. It's one of Apollo's best points with pro tools. I hate UAD overall but this is good.

Console at the moment can monitor up to 4 linked apollos. So, 64 inputs.

Because console is it's own mixer and has a pro tools specific mode, you can actually make setups to tell pro tools WHICH 32 inputs to see, rather than just the first 32.

So what you can do is, have all your stuff still being monitored in Apollo console with up to 64 ins simultaneously, but you just flip the inputs pro tools sees at recording time for the second pass. So you make 2 passes of recording of 32 channels each.. not a big deal at all.. I am monitoring 42 inputs in console at present, no issue at all. I just record the ones I want to record with the "pro tools mode".

Console is basically the digital version of an analog mixer. It's the same thing in practise.. in a 32 into 8 analog mixer, even if you are listening to 32 channels, you can only record 8 at a time. Same principle. But with Console you can record 32 at a time, and the limitation is from PT's end (as you already stated), rather than the mixer's.

This really is a *very* silly decision on Avid's part.. other things I can understand.. For example, int he ultimate software, they put the features that people wanting to just make stereo music don't really need. But to hard limit the synthesiser inputs to 32, is really annoying to the target market OF the pro tools vanilla software.. and I guarantee you, those who can't make do with 32, are NOT going to spend thousand of dollars extra to go to Pt ultimate and HD i/o, they are just going to go to a different DAW instead. This is why it's just a very, very poor business decision on Avid's part, trying to force those who could never afford it into HD or HDX with noisy HD i/o. At the very least they should make it 64 like Logic allows. (cubase is a lot more, as are most DAWs).

If I wasn't using Apollos, i wouldn't have put up with it, I only do so cause of the "pro tools mode" workaround.
That said, i AM going to go to HDX...
but I am going to do it in a different way than Avid would want.

The main reason is to have 64 inputs with room to go to 100 which is my ultimate goal, and to get automation trim but most importantly, sidechain delay compensation and proper integration. I can get rid of my analog mixers which I have in addition to the Apollos.. and literally run everything directly into pro tools itself and never actually have to track to audio like I do with Apollos. I would be able to keep all my outboard synths entirely in the midi domain, which is crazy.. and have all the full benefits of the pro tools mixer with delay compensation. Nothing can beat this integration.
But I am going to do it in a way that benefits Avid very little. I am going to buy a used HDX card for half price, and a sonnet chassis that holds two cards which I will put in a box in the furthest corner of the room.
I will then buy the only two HD interfaces I know of without noisy hideous fans, the antelope Orion HD.. 32 analog inputs built in on each.. and getting two of them is the same price as just *16* analog inputs of Avid HD i/o. The only thing that Avid gets from me is the upgrade to ultimate software and digilink license.

This is because of their ridiculous prices and noisy i/o.. the HD i/o is NOT better quality than the converters in the antelope.. and there's another bonus.. antelope also has DSP effects of it's own that you can use in conjunction with HDX (need to double check this but I saw something on their page showing how you could monitor through their own effects and have sample accurate compatibility with PT HD).
Antelope do scare me as a company, but this is one of their more popular interfaces that have a more decent reliability reputation, and won't rely on a core audio driver as they are simply interfaces for Avid's own HD driver. So.. yeah, this is the only way that makes sense to me to do it.

A year later, i'll get a second HDX card to put in the chassis once I have saved again, and another antelope. Just have a completely uniform system with all the same inputs. Since they don't have mic pres, I'll use a couple high quality pres with adat out (the antelope has full hi res adat in) for when I need to do a vocal or acoustic. Simple.

if avid stopped the noise and made their interfaces and cards the price they should be, I'd be happy to support them directly.
But to give an example.. i'd need over 30 THOUSAND australian dollars to match a similar setup I have now but with official avid i/o and brand new HDX cards.. vs about 14 I spent on 3 apollos, 3 octopre adats and 85 paid UA plugins.

OH, this info benefits OP as well.. cause he does NOT need noisy avid interfaces to have more than 32 inputs.
he could go PT native HD, not HDX, and use 2 of the antelope orion HD, and monitor entirely through their DSP and not worry about taxing the native CPU at 32 buffer to get similar latency :)
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2020, 06:50 AM
Basstian Basstian is offline
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

Just out of curiosity. What are you guys doing that you need more than 32 inputs?

Beside recording orchestral work on location. I have never in the last 20 years had the need for more than 32 channels.
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  #18  
Old 01-22-2020, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

Live or Studio Live, as in whole band at once
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2020, 07:05 AM
TNM TNM is offline
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

Meh, I use over 80 and that's with 3 apollos, 3 adat 8 i/o and 44 channels of analog mixer.. all packed with multi output synths..My template has me being able to choose any midi track in PT at any time and play the respective synth. No workflow slowdown when composing, no creativity blockage.
One drum synth can take 8 or more inputs..
Those who rely solely on external synths need as many inputs as possible, or just drive themselves crazy with patchbays instead.. I choose the former.
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  #20  
Old 01-22-2020, 07:08 AM
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Default Re: Ultimate is the only way to have 32+ IN/OUTs?

The day I have more than one drum synth (8 tracks) and 12 regular synths (24 tracks) hooked together is the day I go nuts and will never recover
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