dialogue placement in surround mix

[duckandcover]

Hi, all,

I recently finished mixing my first film where I added liberal amount of dialogue reverb in the surrounds and spread the dialogue from the C channel to the L/R channel by 70% in the dialogue stem's cernter % setting. I got a note from the QC place that this has been flagged and that dialogue should strictly be placed in the center channel otherwise it could be flagged as dialogue bleeds.

I am confused as to whether or not this is the standard practice as I recall watch other films and dvds where the dialogue can be heard in the L/R channel as well as some verbs in the surround.

could some mixing gurus here chime in?

thanks!

[lexaudio]

Originally Posted by duckandcover

Hi, all,

I recently finished mixing my first film where I added liberal amount of dialogue reverb in the surrounds and spread the dialogue from the C channel to the L/R channel by 70% in the dialogue stem's cernter % setting. I got a note from the QC place that this has been flagged and that dialogue should strictly be placed in the center channel otherwise it could be flagged as dialogue bleeds.

I am confused as to whether or not this is the standard practice as I recall watch other films and dvds where the dialogue can be heard in the L/R channel as well as some verbs in the surround.

could some mixing gurus here chime in?

thanks!

Dialog stays pretty much up the center including reverb unless it is added for an effect, like a dreamy sequence.

What you are hearing in the L/R is a product of the decoded LtRt which when encoded phases shifts the center in the the LR as is the surrounds. You can look up the technical "how it works".

So when it is decoded, there is going to be some of that still left in the L and R.

Stay with up the center. It matched better. If you are matching a room from production to ADR, and you have the production set reverb up the center and the ADR slightly left and right, doesn't it sound weird?

[duckandcover]

hi Lex

thanks for the answer!
I assume the same rules apply to the PFX even if it's not strictly DX?

[mr.armadillo]

Originally Posted by lexaudio

Dialog stays pretty much up the center including reverb unless it is added for an effect, like a dreamy sequence.

That's not true. Most film mixes have reverb spread across L/R/Ls/Rs which adds some depth and width, takes the dialog away from the center and makes it sound less "spotty". Having a sound coming from only one speaker makes it stand out more, but it'll always sound a bit artificial.
There's also a tendency in recent mixes to be more creative with dialog placement - it doesn't stay strictly in the center anymore.

[MIKEROPHONICS]

specs specs specs...... mix to your specs

[minister]

Originally Posted by MIKEROPHONICS

specs specs specs...... mix to your specs

In film film film there are very few specs specs specs. And certainly none about dx dx dx. You are coming from tv tv tv.


The question is, does it sound good? Did it play well in the theater? Was the director happy? Then the next questions are, what is the QC for? Is it because it will now be broadcast? Will there be down mixes? Did you create an LtRt? Did your liberal treatment of the dialogue survive this? In my experience, spreading the dialogue such as you did does not sound all that great and does not survive downmixes very well. Where did you mix this? Were there guidelines for the Distribution QC delivery??

And once you can answer those, I have to say that most of these QC departements exist to create another opportunity to QC and submit another invoice. They look for the most abstruse reason to kick something back!! Hey there is a click in the mix. Rejected. No, those are footsteps and lighter sounds (that were not clicky and sounded full and phat). Abrupt music level change. Rejected. Hunh? The character is leaving the scene and the dialogue ended and this motivates him to go on his way. (I actually received that note and we had to tel;l them that this was none of their business.) You can push back and tell them that this was an artistic choice. As long as it doesn't bite you in the tuchus with any downstream reconfiguring of the mix (e.g. to stereo, or even mono on someones under cupboard TV in the kitchen). The tricky part becomes when the Distributor does not understand technically what is going on and merely relies on "trusting" their QC department....

[Charles D. Ballard]

Originally Posted by minister

And once you can answer those, I have to say that most of these QC departements exist to create another opportunity to QC and submit another invoice. They look for the most abstruse reason to kick something back!! Hey there is a click in the mix. Rejected. No, those are footsteps and lighter sounds (that were not clicky and sounded full and phat). Abrupt music level change. Rejected. Hunh? The character is leaving the scene and the dialogue ended and this motivates him to go on his way. (I actually received that note and we had to tel;l them that this was none of their business.) You can push back and tell them that this was an artistic choice. As long as it doesn't bite you in the tuchus with any downstream reconfiguring of the mix (e.g. to stereo, or even mono on someones under cupboard TV in the kitchen). The tricky part becomes when the Distributor does not understand technically what is going on and merely relies on "trusting" their QC department....

Amen and LOL! I've often wondered if the people in QC are actually watching the film. My favorite was once I had "Missing sound effect at 01:...." When we checked it out, it was when the character ran out of bullets and you could only hear the "click" from the empty gun.

[lexaudio]

Originally Posted by mr.armadillo

That's not true. Most film mixes have reverb spread across L/R/Ls/Rs which adds some depth and width, takes the dialog away from the center and makes it sound less "spotty". Having a sound coming from only one speaker makes it stand out more, but it'll always sound a bit artificial.
There's also a tendency in recent mixes to be more creative with dialog placement - it doesn't stay strictly in the center anymore.

Not saying you can't pan, or use a 5.0 reverb. but for the most part it is up the center.

You want to give an example then? Film and TV

[mr.armadillo]

Originally Posted by lexaudio

Not saying you can't pan, or use a 5.0 reverb. but for the most part it is up the center.

You want to give an example then? Film and TV

Reverb: Almost every mix I heard lately.
Panning: From the top of my head, check out "District 9" or "Scott Pilgrim". Very nice track on both of those.
Spreading accross LCR: "True Grit".

[Moviesound]

Dialogue can go wherever you want. If the director wants to put the whole film in the left surround, then they can