Avid S1 & S4

[Matt82au]

Am i correct in understanding these don't even come with an X-Mon like the S6 M10 does?

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by Matt82au

Am i correct in understanding these don't even come with an X-Mon like the S6 M10 does?

Probably due to the the MTRX that can now handle monitoring duties.

[Jamie Mac]

Xmon has or had a retail price of 2600 dollars.
Another drastic cost cutting measure compared to the cheaper M10, if that’s true.

Eddie, can we agree that for those of us who are not interested in the displays (wich I assume is a large portion of your customer base as you sell them without displays to begin with) the S4 is a horrible deal compared to the soon to be extinct S6 M10?

And anybody looking for professional quality fader control surface now has to jump to the M40? I still can’t believe this is actually happening.

[BScout]

Business decisions are usually based on demand.

And while the M10 was available for the many, many years, you didn’t buy it?

Seems the demand wasn’t there for that product. Via my dealer, the S6-M10 was a pointless product since the lack of displays compared to the M40 and they sold very few in the Los Angeles market. Why is the sky falling now?

[Jamie Mac]

I didn't buy one because of my own business decisions :)

The M10 was the lowest cost entry to the high end controllers. And it was on my list to buy, unless a compelling cheaper product was coming out (which I had been waiting for because AVID reps said this would happen with an S4)

Now it turns out this S4 has faders that I wouldn't touch in such a premium product and it is more expensive in its basic form than it's predecessor.
While marketed as being cheaper: "finally an option for the smaller studios and education market." Which it definitely is not, that option was there all along called the M10. The S4 is actually more expensive now.

The only reason I'm looking to upgrade the S3 I have is because of it's cheap feeling faders, which annoy me (after working with ICON's for almost a decade).

If the M10 was such a failed product? Why is it being replaced by an inferior quality product that has pretty much the same functionality? Just for the optional displays?
Then why not include the displays as standard, if nobody is buying them without displays?

Or why not just bring the M10+ option to market and save the S4 for a product that actually sits in between the S3 and the S6.

[Jamie Mac]

Originally Posted by BScout

Business decisions are usually based on demand.

Also, business decisions are very often made to reduce costs.

Lower cost = more profit.

[BScout]

Originally Posted by Jamie Mac

Also, business decisions are very often made to reduce costs.

Lower cost = more profit.

Yes. And the M10 didn’t make them a profit so it was canned.
And if the S4 is a failure in sales, it will also be canned.

The M10 is still available on the used market. (And per some retailers, on the new market for now until stock is out.) Make your buying decisions based on what’s available now. You not buying the M10 (along with everyone else waiting for “what’s next”) killed it. The S4 being cheaper to produce might keep it afloat.

You wanted a cheaper product (don’t we all) with the same features as the more expensive one and didn’t get it. Avid isn’t going to suddenly end the S4 for you. Time to move on. And if you are serious about purchasing a S6-M10, track one down now. Otherwise this is more talk and talk doesn’t keep products alive; sales do.

(And the last truly good faders were those found on the original 408 fader module for the S5. And those were scrapped to cheaper ones under Avid for being too expensive. Everything has been far worse since then. Just different degrees of worse. The D-Control faders were no beacon of virtue. And the S6 feel cheap but it’s what we got. The S4 faders have also been mentioned to be differently attached than the S3. So an in-person demo might be the only determination vs paper descriptions.)

[Jamie Mac]

Originally Posted by BScout

Yes. And the M10 didn’t make them a profit so it was canned.
And if the S4 is a failure in sales, it will also be canned.

The M10 is still available on the used market. (And per some retailers, on the new market for now until stock is out.) Make your buying decisions based on what’s available now. You not buying the M10 (along with everyone else waiting for “what’s next”) killed it. The S4 being cheaper to produce might keep it afloat.

You wanted a cheaper product (don’t we all) with the same features as the more expensive one and didn’t get it. Avid isn’t going to suddenly end the S4 for you. Time to move on. And if you are serious about purchasing a S6-M10, track one down now. Otherwise this is more talk and talk doesn’t keep products alive; sales do.

(And the last truly good faders were those found on the original 408 fader module for the S5. And those were scrapped to cheaper ones under Avid for being too expensive. Everything has been far worse since then. Just different degrees of worse. The D-Control faders were no beacon of virtue. And the S6 feel cheap but it’s what we got. The S4 faders have also been mentioned to be differently attached than the S3. So an in-person demo might be the only determination vs paper descriptions.)

I hear you, and will move on (to probably find used M10's)

I'm just expressing my opinion, as this product is marketed towards business like my own. A small post production company, with 2 new studios being built and I'm looking for decent controllers in both.

And for my market or my intended use the new lineup is a step back from the previous offerings.

Also, I believe a big reason why people aren't buying M10's is that many are still on D-commands (like I was) and of those who have gone Eucon, many have gone S3+dock instead of S6, because it is a lot more expensive than the D-command originally was and the S3+Dock has 90% of the S6 features.
Remember the D-command 8 fader unit was around 15K? Including decent faders (not amazing but still a league above the S3), xmon and no support subscription.

(Example: A 24 channel D-command was more than 20K cheaper than the 24 channel S4 or S6)

There is still no direct replacement for that ever so popular product in that price range, after all these years.

[Matt82au]

I’m someone who is in a similar position to Jamie, and I share his view. I got pretty excited upon hearing the announcement for s4 but feel that the marketing approach of a budget approach to the s6 is a bit misleading given no included monitoring aspect and apparently lower quality components.

Feels like a missed cue for a decent target market truly between s6 and s3 and dock.

[Brandonx1]

There is always the s1 guys