Most recent PT version that used TDM Mixer?

[giroserex]

Hi,

I see HDx, Native and LE all use floating point engine, so when did the change over happen my guess is 8.1 was the first to move from 48 INT mix, round about the same time LE was introduced is that correct? Just need confirmation.

Thanks in advance
Giro

[albee1952]

Not an expert, but TDM died when Pro Tools 11 hit. Maybe the better question is; why does it matter?

[suicune]

As far as I was aware, the Native versions (i.e. LE) always used floating point mix engines right from the start (V5 IIRC), and TDM always used fixed. It's about playback engine you are using and not the version number. That is I can run PT10 using the TDM engine and it will be 48 INT mix, but if I launch the same software natively using any other playback engine it uses float. Although as albee said obviously you can't do that beyond PT10.

That was my understanding anyway, not that I've really tested it, but I've certainly observed differences in the way it reports clips when running natively.

[panamajack]

PT 11 was the 64 bit version. Last version for TDM was 10.3.10. TDM runs in 32 bit.

If you do a co-install (under Mountain Lion or Mavericks...or Win7), the Avid instructions say to not use the 11 HD driver, stick with the 10 HD driver for compatibility.

Avid says you can run a co-install of 10 with 12.4, but not sure why that would be helpful because the idea is the superiority of 64 bit for speed and power.

PT10 HD TDM in 32 bit has low latency for recording live. Last I checked it was lower than HD Native, but not quite as low as HDX.

The big deal with 64 bit PT is that is breaks through the 4 GB memory limitation, so you can run more plug-ins and virtual instruments.

Next phase will be 128 bit native, then 256 bit will follow after everyone has purchased 128 bit hardware.

As far as I remember, PT 8 was 32 bit. I think PT HD 8.5 is when HDX hit, then PT 9 would run with competitor's hardware.

[giroserex]

So am I right in thinking HD 8 was the first to use 32float and whatever before it didn't (48INT)?

[panamajack]

Got confused because you are asking about audio processing and I was thinking about how the operating system transitioned from 32 bit to 64 bit. So your question relates to 32 bit floating point audio? And when Pro Tools transitioned away from 24 bit fixed point?

I think the difference in version 8 was that the LE versions worked with 32 bit floating point audio resolution, but the HD (TDM) version used 24 bit fixed point, with the mixer using double resolution 48 bit audio.

So when you start bouncing things around during a mix, the "rounding" of all the ones and zeros may ultimately create some problems. But because people listen to sounds that are the result of digital to analog conversion, there may be some theoretical limitations.

The initial recording has to be well done, but the 32 bit floating point format may help plug-in processing from clipping during rendering.

Either way, the discussion probably should include use of "dithering" to transition from digital to analog.

Pro Tools 10 HD did allow a choice between 16 bit and 24 bit fixed point -- or 32 bit float -- recordings. And the ability to bounce files at 32 bit float. But I think TDM was a fixed point process and Pro Tools was still running in 32 bit operating systems.

Bigger numbers do require faster processors and 32 bit files require more data storage than either 16 or 24 bit files.

[giroserex]

Originally Posted by panamajack

So your question relates to 32 bit floating point audio? And when Pro Tools transitioned away from 24 bit fixed point?

Absolutely,

I think the difference in v8 was that the LE versions worked with 32 bit floating point audio resolution, but the HD (TDM) version used 24 bit fixed point, with the mixer using double resolution 48 bit audio.

I read LE was a budget/portable system offered as an alternative to HD8. I assume the TDM dsp cards aren't compatible with LE and so all of it is/was float, (mixer and plugs) with "HD (TDM) version" you mention, being HD8.

I was going to sit on HD8 being the last version of protools to use the classic engine (100% fixed), until you mentioned:

Pro Tools 10 HD did allow a choice between 16 bit and 24 bit fixed point -- or 32 bit float --

In light of this, can HD10 still run the classic engine without any float processing anywhere in the chain, then?
Perhaps thats what you meant when you said "Last version for TDM was 10.3.10", that and albee already said in post #2 "TDM died when Pro Tools 11 hit".

I think it was hard to pin down because its now obvious that the switch-over from 100% fixed to 100% float was not instantaneous i.e. the transition was 'gradual', over a few versions.

[panamajack]

Albee also asked, "Why does it matter?"

It matters if you want to keep using the TDM hardware. In that case, 10.3.10 is the finale.

However, some of the interface boxes (the 192, 96I/O, etc) work with the Native and HDX and Native setups. It is just that people moving along with new HDX cards likely want the new interfaces, too.

If you have a fast computer, PT 11 and PT12 can handle quite a bit. The HD versions have a few extras, and can even be run without the HD|Native or HDX hardware.

And as Suicune pointed out, the LE versions were using floating point mix engines back to 5.xx versions. It was a Digidesign product and an affordable way to learn the software for people who wanted to eventually grab the HD hardware that could handle more tracks.

[giroserex]

Ok thanks for the assurance

So 10.3.10 positively had the 48bit mixer yes?

Nice setup btw :)

[JFreak]

TDM cards originally had 24bit integer mixer, HD cards doubled it to 48bit integer. That doesn't change whether your session is 16/24bit integer or 32bit float (PT10).

LE hardware (the early Native systems) had 32bit float mixer.

The current HDN/HDX systes have 64bit float mixer.

Easy to get confused with these