ADC Audible Latency When ANY Instrument Track Is Record Enabled

[Intransit]

I think I have read people having the same problem with ADC enabled and midi. Anything I have routed out of a multi output Vi (Battery,Kontact, etc..) to an aux, instrument track or audio track becomes late or early when I record enable any instrument track...???????

Running 512 buffer at the moment

[Intransit]

I set up the simplest version of the problem. 3 instrument tracks: One with battery, the second with the input set to the second set of batteries output and one aux with a Lexicon Plate RTAS.

I routed a snare out of batteries second output and a kick out of the master on the battery track. 4 quarter notes triggering the kick and snare, the second I set the input of the aux track with the verb on it and record enable any of the instrument tracks the bussed snare track starts flaming. If ADC is NOT enabled it does not do this.

I tried this same thing with kontakt as well. Something about the ADC, midi and internal routing are not playing nice with each other. Avid are we supposed to sequence and record with ADC off? I don't see how that's possible.. as a composer I mix and treat things as I go.

Thanks in advance.

[Bushpig]

Hey Intransit,

Yes, welcome to the game. I'm sure you've seen the other threads around here talking about this situation ad infinitum. Here's one that's currently quite active.

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=296384

It's a bit ridiculous that we all have to do something similar to yourself to do an overdub. It's caused by the fact that ADC is currently implemented in mixer RAM and therefore is ALWAYS adding delay to our signal, including interacting with the buffer setting.

You'll see I've asked DTS a question about this over at the thread mentioned above, but so far haven't had a reply. I hope they're working on changing how this all ties together in a future version of PT. We keep dreaming.

Cheers

Steve Bush
http://music180.com/pros/5887

[Intransit]

It's pretty ridiculous. I've noticed it for awhile I would record some midi drum parts and they would only play in time once I disabled rec on the instrument track. I would still have to edit and quantize because when I was playing it in, it sounded off and my performance sucked.. The work I have at the moment is so much more performance and feel oriented and it's so noticeable and frustrating.

Thanks for the response.

[woodsdenis]

Originally Posted by Intransit

I think I have read people having the same problem with ADC enabled and midi. Anything I have routed out of a multi output Vi (Battery,Kontact, etc..) to an aux, instrument track or audio track becomes late or early when I record enable any instrument track...???????

Running 512 buffer at the moment

It has been this way since PT7. Crazy

[Intransit]

I'm sure. I only moved over to HD around 8.0. something.. I just don't understand how they expect us to work without ADC on. I use so many plugins at times when recording guitar or treating a synth sound to make it inspiring. The thread that was provided earlier really finally has me thinking that I'm going to have to move over to LOGIC. RAM issues RTAS issues QT freezing (which could have been solved with 8.0.5 but haven't had a heavy session yet) now this... It makes the job I love really not lovable at times.. to often really.

[Intransit]

Also RTAS having to be bypassed in HD when an audio track is rec enabled is really frustrating. So many other composers call PT a stone age program. I really was truly able to understand this once I moved over to 'the mighty' HD, which is sadly very ironic.

[Intransit]

This was in the 9.0.2 fix list:
When using Delay Compensation and recording MIDI to an Instrument track while simultaneously bussing the Instrument
track’s audio output to an Audio track, the recorded audio would be out of sync with the MIDI. (PTSW-56742)
When using Delay Compensation, recorded audio and MIDI now line up correctly in the Edit window timeline.

I'm wondering if this would solve my problem since essentially the multi outputs from Kontakt etc are like a buss. But I'm sending audio to an aux or instrument track. It would seem odd to only fix a routing latency issue for one type of track.

[stargazer]

Originally Posted by Intransit

This was in the 9.0.2 fix list:
When using Delay Compensation and recording MIDI to an Instrument track while simultaneously bussing the Instrument
track’s audio output to an Audio track, the recorded audio would be out of sync with the MIDI. (PTSW-56742)
When using Delay Compensation, recorded audio and MIDI now line up correctly in the Edit window timeline.

I'm on 9.0.2 - doesn't work for me.

I'm wondering if this would solve my problem since essentially the multi outputs from Kontakt etc are like a buss. But I'm sending audio to an aux or instrument track. It would seem odd to only fix a routing latency issue for one type of track.

Maybe it's related to the problem regarding multi outputs, but p963 in the Reference Guide makes me wonder:

Delay Compensation for Instrument plug-ins works only when all MIDI and audio connections take place inside Pro Tools. While Pro Tools does not suspend Delay Compensation when you are using ReWire to connect software synthesizers and samplers in other ReWire client applications (such as Reason), Pro Tools cannot account for any latency within the ReWire client itself.

Does this include multi outs of RTAS-plugins too?
On my system w. PT 9.02, ADC works fine when recording audio, and midi too, as long as the midi is routed to an Instrument Track directly, and doesn't involve the VIs separate outputs, routed to Audio or Aux Tracks.
If this ADC-Midi-Rec-VI-Multi-Out-issue would be solved, my workflow would improve a LOT.

At the moment, I have to force-enable the audio tracks in Input mode that I use for multi outs, and choose one of the following workarounds:

1. Keep the total system delay as low as possible, until mix.

2. Be more creative with the use of plugins, but keeping all VIs audio otputs on their main Instrument Tracks, and re-route through multi outs at mix.

None of those examples lets me build the mix as I go, and makes it difficult to overdub at a late stage.

DTS?

[suicune]

I have discovered that since this fix:

When using Delay Compensation and recording MIDI to an Instrument track while simultaneously bussing the Instrument
track’s audio output to an Audio track, the recorded audio would be out of sync with the MIDI. (PTSW-56742)
When using Delay Compensation, recorded audio and MIDI now line up correctly in the Edit window timeline.

was implemented (which was also incorporated in 8.1.1) I have to bypass ADC on all auxes for multi-out VIs whenever I put any MIDI or instrument track in record in order for the playback to remain in time. I am assuming this bug is some sort of side effect of the above fix but I had not yet reported it properly to tech support as I'm still having bigger problems and the workaround is relatively simple.