Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Additional Resources


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Other Products > Storage Subsystems

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 10-28-2017, 08:58 PM
Rockman413 Rockman413 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 416
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SigFriedChicken View Post
This is a simple-seeming question, but it really depends on the specifics.

When you copy files, validation is usually handled by the operating system. I don't believe that operating systems generally perform a full "verify" operation when you copy a file, though they probably compare metadata, like file size, to confirm that the source and target are the same size. Generally, if no error is reported, you can be confident that the file is not corrupt. But "not corrupt" is not the same thing as "exactly the same as the source."

There are specialized copying and backup applications that will perform a full "verify" operation, where the source and target are compared, block by block, to ensure that they are exactly the same. Full verify operations are time-consuming and often take just as long as the actual copy operation. An alternative is to manually generate a checksum for a file, before it is copied, and then get a checksum for the file after it is copied and confirm that they match.
Well you said it may not be the same as the source. So after of 50 hours of mixing and hard work, then we copy to another location, and we should suspect that's not exactly the same as what we have mixed?
__________________
Mac Pro 3.0G 8 Cores PT HD use with Ensemble Thunderbolt
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-28-2017, 09:55 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 11,600
Default If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Oh God, why is this thread still going on. Just copy the files. If you had experiences where things did not seem to work then try to work out what happened. The most likely problems are mistakes like copying files not fully written to disk (e.g. Pro Tools session not closed before you copy), the disk not being properly unmoubted, or an application bug in Pro Tools.... silent filesystem or disk block level corruption are not worth worrying about. Deep corruption you expect copies to fail. But if you don’t have confidence in a drive trash it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-29-2017, 05:32 AM
Rockman413 Rockman413 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 416
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Oh God, why is this thread still going on. Just copy the files. If you had experiences where things did not seem to work then try to work out what happened. The most likely problems are mistakes like copying files not fully written to disk (e.g. Pro Tools session not closed before you copy), the disk not being properly unmoubted, or an application bug in Pro Tools.... silent filesystem or disk block level corruption are not worth worrying about. Deep corruption you expect copies to fail. But if you don’t have confidence in a drive trash it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The thing is, I just bought a new drive about 2 months ago , but it hit the floor , not a big deal thought but still some concerns. That's why I wonder if I continue use this one and if the copy process if complete without any errors, am I getting exactly the same audio files. That's why I start this topic to really understand how it works and if we can trust a complete copy process means we are getting the identical files.
__________________
Mac Pro 3.0G 8 Cores PT HD use with Ensemble Thunderbolt
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-29-2017, 05:38 AM
Rockman413 Rockman413 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 416
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Furthur more, I have had an experience of copying audio files to a very very cheap USB stick , and to another computer, and I got half of the audio turns into white noise... It may be damaged due to unmount...

So wondering if a super cheap USB stick, which may easily have bad blocks, once the copy is finished without any errors, can we really trust all the audio files are the same as original.
__________________
Mac Pro 3.0G 8 Cores PT HD use with Ensemble Thunderbolt
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-29-2017, 09:04 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 11,600
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockman413 View Post
Furthur more, I have had an experience of copying audio files to a very very cheap USB stick , and to another computer, and I got half of the audio turns into white noise... It may be damaged due to unmount...



So wondering if a super cheap USB stick, which may easily have bad blocks, once the copy is finished without any errors, can we really trust all the audio files are the same as original.

You are not helping yourself by having problems then leaping into a specific deeper area and asking things about like “bad blocks” which have a specific technical meaning, are hardware related, below the level of files or the file system, and *will* cause reported errors on a file copy. Are you writing your own copy program? Filesystem? Working with a debugger trying to reconstruct a corrupt filesystem? No? Then stop asking questions about bad blocks etc. and start working out if you did anything that could cause this (much more likely), or you can work out if you have something like a corrupted filesystem or device (much less likely).

So again worry about things like...

Are you sure Pro Tools (or any other program/utility) fully exited/closed the session, with no errors reported, before you started copying files to the transfer media.

How exactly are you unmounting the transfer drive?

How exactly are you copying files?

There are three filesystems involved here, the source, transfer and target one. One each one compare the files, starting with generating a checksum for each file in the session. Where are they different?

What exact type of filesystem is on each device?

What exact OS/version is on each computer?

Is the file system you are copying from or too or on the transfer device corrupted. Run a file system check utility. What does it say/do?

Look at the SMART diagnostics (or equivalent) for each of the three devices.

Is this reproducible? How exactly?







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-29-2017, 08:21 PM
Rockman413 Rockman413 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 416
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

meaning, when using even a questionable HDD or SSD, as long as I have copied the files out without seeing any error messages from OS X, then I can trust that the files I copied is the same/good as original and I should not worry. Correct?
__________________
Mac Pro 3.0G 8 Cores PT HD use with Ensemble Thunderbolt
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-29-2017, 09:26 PM
Sardi Sardi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Perth
Posts: 1,040
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

You've gotten a lot of great info here from other posters, but I gotta ask, if you're really this paranoid about this particular drive in question, why not just buy another one? They're not exactly expensive these days.

Seems like it would put your mind at rest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-29-2017, 09:32 PM
Rockman413 Rockman413 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 416
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardi View Post
You've gotten a lot of great info here from other posters, but I gotta ask, if you're really this paranoid about this particular drive in question, why not just buy another one? They're not exactly expensive these days.

Seems like it would put your mind at rest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm thinking , even copying from a bad drive, if I can copy them out without seeing any errors, then I don't have to worry about anything. So I don't want to buy another one, and I'll understand the theory so I don't have to worry in the future.
__________________
Mac Pro 3.0G 8 Cores PT HD use with Ensemble Thunderbolt
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-29-2017, 09:44 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 11,600
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockman413 View Post
meaning, when using even a questionable HDD or SSD, as long as I have copied the files out without seeing any error messages from OS X, then I can trust that the files I copied is the same/good as original and I should not worry. Correct?
Yes and no. Normally you are fine. There are possible very rare cases say where you can have problems. Like the file system begin written to has some form of rare corruption (but not bad block type issues that will cause an error of it can't be auto corrected).

And a very likely cause of data being wrong inside a file is not corruption of the filesystem of file, its the application program writing garbage into a perfectly fine file. So back up and go check every step here by checksumming the files at each stage and confirm where they differ. (not what any application. including Pro Tools tells you is in the file, but actually use a checksum to see the actual files on disk differ or not).

Again this should not be a hypothetical question. If you are having issues, work to find out what is actually going on and stop asking people what they think.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-29-2017, 10:00 PM
Rockman413 Rockman413 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 416
Default Re: If I use a crap HD to copy audio files, would it cause any problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Yes and no. Normally you are fine. There are possible very rare cases say where you can have problems. Like the file system begin written to has some form of rare corruption (but not bad block type issues that will cause an error of it can't be auto corrected).

And a very likely cause of data being wrong inside a file is not corruption of the filesystem of file, its the application program writing garbage into a perfectly fine file. So back up and go check every step here by checksumming the files at each stage and confirm where they differ. (not what any application. including Pro Tools tells you is in the file, but actually use a checksum to see the actual files on disk differ or not).

Again this should not be a hypothetical question. If you are having issues, work to find out what is actually going on and stop asking people what they think.
I have copied around 50 audio files(each file is one tracks) using a USB stick. I occasionally found 1 audio file has problem(half of that file turns into white noise) by ear human listening. Next time I’m going to copy 100 audio files, I want to know I can trust the copy, otherwise I’ll have to use my ear and listen to all that 100 audio files to make sure there’s nothing wrong. I don’t want to use a lot of time to listen thru all that copied 100 audio files, that’s why I asked if I can trust those copied files. If I have issues I know how to track each step , but the thing here is , when copying 100 audio files, I don’t know if there’s an issue or not, and I can’t listen thru them all to check them.
The problem is , I don’t know if the copy has caused any issue, maybe it’s not like last time half of the audio turns into white noise, it could be only 1 second of white noise...

That’s why I asked if if the target disk is in great shape,the copy completed without any errors, and the mount/unmount is successful, application like pro tools is closed totally before copying, then at this time should I trust the copy is perfect.
__________________
Mac Pro 3.0G 8 Cores PT HD use with Ensemble Thunderbolt
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Missing Audio Files in Session Copy jshiffma Pro Tools 12 5 06-20-2017 03:43 AM
Save Copy as without Audio Files force76 Pro Tools 11 3 11-20-2014 09:06 AM
How to copy audio files not in session folder? jchan Pro Tools Software (Mac) 2 04-18-2014 05:29 AM
Help! PT wants to copy all audio files PT10-PT9 evs Post - Surround - Video 2 07-23-2012 12:17 PM
How do I copy and paste audio files? tioluis Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 4 07-01-2007 10:22 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:15 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com