Mac 8core 2.8 gHz Harpertown 16-32 gig RAM vs. New 2.66 gHz Nehalem with 8-16 gig Ram

[johnnyboy5000]

I'd say go for what's cheaper. My 2.66 Mac Pro from 2006 with 8 gigs of ram still feels pretty quick. I spent like $4,000 on it with the screen. Yikes! Looking back an Imac would have probably met my needs just as good. Looking forward to the 10.6 update as well.

[abenkori]

Hi Rainsong:
Yes, you're absolutely right about various tests comparing a single quadcore Nahalem 2.66 vs. a Dual quadcore Harpertown 2.8... You saw that by most standards the newer quadcore is a lot faster. And to boot, it's got DDR3 memory, which (so the sales reps tell us) is much faster than DDR2.
And someone else here has basically (sort of) clarified that it is Pro Tools that can't currently utilize more than four GB of Ram-although every virtual instrument and plug in and other such memory hog probably will voraciously tear through every bit of Ram you could feed them.
And the folks who have told me that more RAM is the best bang for the buck, and the best proof against early obsolescence---these guys have several platinum and gold discs/records and Grammy nominations hanging on their walls, and a million-dollar studio with a client list to make your jaw drop. But, again, they use HD, not LE.
So all us home recorders have to consider some other parameters, perhaps. It seems this discussion is opening up more and more possibilities and quandaries...
Like the upcoming version of "Snow Leopard." Geez, then waiting on PT LE to read 64 bit. I guess I could wait forever.
But with Harpertown eight-cores at decent resale prices, and quadcore Nehalems on sale continually as refurbs, it's a hard choice.

HEY, CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THE NEHALEM 2.66 SINGLE QUADCORE MACHINE CAN ACTUALLY RUN ON AFTERMARKET RAM UPGRADES EQUALING 16 GIG OF RAM (REMEMBERING THAT MAC ONLY SPECS THESE MACHINES' RAM SLOTS AS BEING CAPABLE OF USING 8 GIG)? I HAVE READ ELSEWHERE THAT THOSE ARE BEING SUCSESSFULLY TESTED AND RUN WITH DOUBLE THE MEMORY PER SLOT VIA AFTERMARKET RAM...WHETHER IT VOIDS MAC'S WARRANTY OR NOT.
ONE THING'S FOR SURE, A NEHALEM 2.66 WITH 16 (VS FACTORY SPEC'D 8) GIG OF DDR3 RAM WOULD BE A VERY FORMIDABLE MACHINE... AT LEAST FOR A YEAR OR TWO.

OBSERVATIONS OR COMMENTS?

[abenkori]

Hi Stephan:
As to why I'd consider a quad core with 16 gig of DDR3 RAM, or an older 8 core with 32 gig of DDR2, it may be that I'm too ready to fork over the cash... Maybe 8gig of DDR2 on an 8 core Harpertown or 8 gig of DDR3 on a new quadcore will easily handle plugins and VSTs galore.
Two things here:
One:I've been reminded that new VSTs, etc are getting pretty RAM-hungry

Two: I'm traumatized by the whole awful experience of using PCs... you know, the Yugos of the computing world, where you spend all your creative energies trying to figure out magical solutions to undecipherable problems on the damn machine, and being too wrecked and fatigued to actually record and write. It's like delving into quantum math theory...real fun if you're a genius and you like that sort of thing, but NOT applicable in the the real world.
My take on PCs, Microsoft and the whole schmere, is you work for THEM...they don't work for you. You buy a cheap machine that screams for a while, then you spend the rest of your life trying to fix it.
PCs require that we be GEEKS (no insult intended), when some of us are mere songwriters and performers. If I had 48 hours in each day, and a gallon of caffienne, maybe I'd have the resources to make music AND record on my PC. Ah, for all the times I've just stared at my bloody PC, thinking..."I want to record, but there's that *&%## problem with the what's-it called, and I can't even understand the freakin' error message.
Here's hoping Mac is half the salvation that people claim it is. If I NEVER see another PC (including this laptop I'm writing on right now, it will be too soon!
I'm sick of working for Bill Gates as a paying Beta-Tester!
Wow, do 'ya think I'm bitter? Here's to making music, not troubleshooting machines.
Thanks!

[se.audio]

Originally Posted by

Hi Stephan:
As to why I'd consider a quad core with 16 gig of DDR3 RAM, or an older 8 core with 32 gig of DDR2, it may be that I'm too ready to fork over the cash... Maybe 8gig of DDR2 on an 8 core Harpertown or 8 gig of DDR3 on a new quadcore will easily handle plugins and VSTs galore.
Two things here:
One:I've been reminded that new VSTs, etc are getting pretty RAM-hungry

Two: I'm traumatized by the whole awful experience of using PCs... you know, the Yugos of the computing world, where you spend all your creative energies trying to figure out magical solutions to undecipherable problems on the damn machine, and being too wrecked and fatigued to actually record and write. It's like delving into quantum math theory...real fun if you're a genius and you like that sort of thing, but NOT applicable in the the real world.
My take on PCs, Microsoft and the whole schmere, is you work for THEM...they don't work for you. You buy a cheap machine that screams for a while, then you spend the rest of your life trying to fix it.
PCs require that we be GEEKS (no insult intended), when some of us are mere songwriters and performers. If I had 48 hours in each day, and a gallon of caffienne, maybe I'd have the resources to make music AND record on my PC. Ah, for all the times I've just stared at my bloody PC, thinking..."I want to record, but there's that *&%## problem with the what's-it called, and I can't even understand the freakin' error message.
Here's hoping Mac is half the salvation that people claim it is. If I NEVER see another PC (including this laptop I'm writing on right now, it will be too soon!
I'm sick of working for Bill Gates as a paying Beta-Tester!
Wow, do 'ya think I'm bitter? Here's to making music, not troubleshooting machines.
Thanks!

As I said, my personal choice would be 8 processors over 4 (which, independently of how much RAM you have, it is the processors that do the ACTUAL work) but then I see people around here have different opinions. I'm not too fussed. Just also clarifying for those saying that tests have showed that the nehalehem is twice as fast as the 8-core harpertown, well these tests have not been made with protools. And as for choosing the newer one because it is futureproof: the harpertown is also a 64bit workstation so they'll both be OK in the future... One last thing is, well if RAM is of concern to you in choosing which computer to buy, consider the 8 core can go up to 32GB, the 4-core can only get 16GB.
But I'm really feeling like I'm blabbering on about an issue I don't really care about. I'd say go with the cheapest, and if you got the money, buy an 8-core nehalehem = problem solved!

As for abenkori, I understand how bitter you can get with PC's blue screen of death popping up every now and then, and yes, macs are more reliable ON THE GROUNDS THAT YOU DO NOT PUMP THEM WITH A MILION PROGRAMS, VSTs AND OTHER USELESS CRAP. If doing so is your plan, then don't think the grass is greener on the other side. In saying that, if you treat your mac well, you'll never go back to PC...


Cheers.

www.myspace.com/ninospace

[j20056]

I'd go for the 8 core. I have a HarperTown 8-core and I use BFD2 with the Andy Johns extension kits, which are very large in RAM. I also use soft synths (Sampletank 2.5) and Guitar Rig 3. If I allocate 6 or 7 of the processors to the RTAS plugin (NEVER ALLOCATE ALL 8, TOOK ME A WHILE TO FIGURE IT OUT ALTHOUGH WELL KNOWN) then you can run everything lve at 64 samples. Before, I could never run Rig3 at lower than 256 samples, which had too much latency to be playable. Now I can have 5 instances (never tried more) of RIG3, and the other stuff, running at 64 samples.
I have 8GB RAM. Bought the machine with the minimum from Apple, then added Crucial RAM. It is TRIVIAL to add RAM, and no toos required. If you ever had a problem, take out the extra RAM, they'll never know you had it if warranty were an issue. I also added 2x750gb internal HD which is also a breeze.