TT vs. 1/4" patchbays

[Brent Hahn]

Are there any advantages to using TT bays besides the space savings?

Brent

[jasona]

No, that's pretty much it. If a studio has maybe hundreds of I/O's to patch, TT is the way to go. Also, TT bays are usually hard wired, where 1/4" bays simply have cables plugged into the back which can accidentaly be pulled out - unknown to the poor fool who is trying to figure out why the left input to "X" device is not working.

For a modest recording setup, just go with 1/4" TRS and you'll save time and money.

[The Chinese]

Originally posted by jasona:
No, that's pretty much it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is just simply not the case. A professional 1/4" bay or a Pro TT bay give you an entire host of advantages over the plug it in the back type.
A)The jacks are rated at a lot more insertions.
B)The normals are a LOT more hardy and will withstand constant patching.
C)The busses can ground (Crucial; for even a mid-size studio.
D)A LOT neater.
E)A LOT easier to troubleshoot.

Also, TRS implies the professional type bay, not the Switchcraft 297 or Neutrik type bay (Look like a guitar chord or headhone plug).

Also 1/4" has a lot more contact area, and the normals generally will last longer.

-Todd A.

[snoopy]

Some feel (including myself) that military style bays (similar in size to 1/4", but slightly smaller)) sound better. Not referring to cheap home 1/4" patchbays that you plug in both the back and front. You will still see a lot of old school type of studios using military jacks. But it's about splitting hairs.

[georgia]

we build patchbays on a weekly basis for clients.
1/4" balanced, unbalanced, solder or plug, TT punchblock or solder, whatever... Each has good and bad points. IT all depends on what you are trying to accompish and what quality of audio and technology you can afford.

Given my druthers... It's always tt solder bays. In my opinion after building literally hundreds of patchbays, that they: sound the best, are the easiest to maintain and offer the best price/performace/space option.

1/4 unbalanced plug in types are by nature generally cheaaper and what we have found offer the worst solution.
cables tend to come lose creating ground and noise issues.

1/4 balanced solder bays ( high quality ones ) are just as good as tt just requiring more space. In fact almost 100% of our tt bay installations have at least one or more 1/4" balanced bays for tie-lies.

the only thing worse than an unbalanced 1/4 plug bay is a tt multi-pin plug bay. The back plugs tend to come lose and are a pain to fix. They also tend to have additional space requirments and you have to be extremely careful with cable weight.

the tt punchblock bays , although older, work well, but require full access at the rear of the rack and have special mounting requirement for the punch blocks.

btw, the differencial is surface area between any of these solutions will not make a bit of difference in electrical condutivity.

Well cleaned and maintained patchbays, and well cleaned and maintained patchcables *will* make a huge difference in electrical connectiviy and sonic quality.


cheers
georgia

[where02190]

Surface contact most definitely matters, and 1/4" or the more professionsl style Longframe or Bantam connectors, yeild a much higher surface contact, ensureing a better electron flow.

If this is a home or project studio, good quality (Furman, DBX) trs bacys are excellent, and very economical.

for a professional facility, TT or longframe bays ar ethe way to go.

Hope this is helpful.

[georgia]

You're spreading a wives-tail here. Solid connections matter, Material types matter, you need to make an electrical bond between the two pieces of metal. You do need a certain amount of surface area to avoid increased resistance but The differential in surface area between tt, 1/4 and other patchbay types, at these voltage levels, are inconsquential.
You need a lot more voltage and alot bigger differentnial to start getting into surface area discussions. Next time you think surface area makes any noticable difference at these operating levels open up a piece of equipment and look at the signal flow path and all the connections in it. If you'd like to create a scientific test to verify this, take a very high quality dual trace ocilliscope and measure the signal level difference through a 1/4" and a TT type patchbay connection and while you're at it, measure the resistance levels across both types. You'll see what i'm talking about.
Size might matter [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] but not in patchbays... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

cheers
georgia

[where02190]

Originally posted by georgia:
If you'd like to create a scientific test to verify this, take a very high quality dual trace ocilliscope and measure the signal level difference through a 1/4" and a TT type patchbay connection and while you're at it, measure the resistance levels across both types. You'll see what i'm talking about.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Been there, done that, the difference was quite obvious.

Hope this is helpful.

[Charles D. Ballard]

Not to be contrary, but I’d have to agree with Georgia on this one. The amount of electricity traveling through the patch bay is much too small to be affected by the size difference between TT and 1/4". If you performed tests that showed differently there must have been other mitigating circumstances. (i.e. quality of metals, quality of solder, etc.)

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[guitates]

Wellll...I just assembled 2-52 jack TRS PB's, and the jacks alone were $4 to $5 ea. = >$400+...

Each face plate was $85+...

The 1000ft of 9251 was $100+

The Rack and the time it took 40 to 50 hrs ? (I wired it, but I would charge $25 hr minimum to do it for someone else) cost Mucho $$$

2 Great TRS Patchbays with Normals are $$$$ = $ 1000 +

I DO NOT LIKE TT Bays, because I have to use a Microscope to read them....TRS ( not stereo 1/4"--big difference) for Me !!!

There is NO Difference in TRS or TT Conductitivity... If there is any scope difference, this Means Nothing to the Pro's !!!

I work for the studio's in LA, and I have seen both kinds of PB's in the biggest studio's... [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]