PT7 and midi timing?

[Trailerman]

Hi Nikki

There's really no need to capture a very complex performance in order to reproduce the MIDI timing inaccuracies. In fact it's much easier to demonstrate just using repeated 16ths on a single note.

If your Kurzweil can quantize, just record some 16ths on the same note at say 120BPM into the Kurz, and quantize them (preferably also fix the length so that they are all identical). Then play them from the Kurzweil and record the MIDI into ProTools, with a relatively complex session already setup (you can use the file I sent you). Preferably set the session to the same tempo.

This should establish whether things behave on your system as they do on mine. Once you have the MIDI recorded into PT, you can look at the MIDI notes against a grid, and see if they've been recorded accurately. That's how I've been testing.

Just trying to save you some time. No doubt I'm missing a bigger picture that you're seeking to explore.

All the best

Jules

[N.E.R.D]

Don't know if this is related or not. Basically I have PT 7.1cs4 running MIDI (from a DIGI MIDI i/o) to Kontakt on an external PC. Occasionally, usually after several hours in a session, the MIDI information seems to be sending to Kontakt all out of whack, like a second late. It's all over the place. When I reboot tools, the problem seems to have solved itself. I have never had such a problem...well actually, I think something like this has occurred before, maybe around 6.1 or something. Basically, it is not usual behaviour from my experience - something is definitely up with PT7 and MIDI. Delay compensation has been on.

My system : PT Accel HD 3, Mac G5 Dual 2.5, 4.5 GB RAM, MIDI i/o, PT 7.1 cs4.

[Trailerman]

I have (very) ocassionally seen something similar with PT when playing a virtual instrument, where the audio engine has an issue (perhaps a CPU overload) and things go out of whack, but I think this is more related to the audio engine (which then resets itself when you reboot). Perhaps outgoing MIDI is also affected.

I don't think it's the same as the issue I personally have been harping on about, which is essentially a problem with ProTools' ability to respond to/record incoming MIDI in realtime. Generally I find that once MIDI is in ProTools, it plays it back pretty accurately, aside from the example you give.

Jules

[Eugene]

My test was with a Digi002R on WinXP going to a HD1 system on Mac. The Mac session had 32 audio tracks, tons of plug-ins and auxes and 3 virtual instruments being triggered by pre-recorded MIDI tracks. I saw no appreciable difference between a single track MIDI session and the fully laden one.

Can you repeat your test using HD system on PC as a midi recorder instead of Mac. I think its PC and HD related problem. The problem is still there and very annoying.
There were so much words spoken describing sympthoms. Let me say it one more time in just a few:

-RTAS synths are not responding correctly in time when receiving incoming midi.

Sometimes its even impossible to play at all.
No matter whether they're updated or not. Same result here. TDM better. But not perfect.

Dear DigiTech, can you please confirm you're aware of this problem and trying to fix it?

Thanks.

[Eugene]

May I please have a feedback on my previous post? Digi?

Thanks

[T666]

Sorry for the side topic, but dood thats scary

First up...
Is the midi acuracy problem exclusive to recording or also with playback? and how about playback WITH the realtime effect plugins ON? whats the situation?

Is their latency with HD?
Is it playable?

Ive been planning to buy HD for 2 years now
I want to play live with a tama kit/ddrum triggers to a ddrum module triggering midi into protools with a softsampler (one i havnt decided on yet) and route each drum audio sample to its own track in protools with real time effects bussed down with live guitar and vocals to get a mastered quality sound for the whole band in real time LIVE direct to the amp or via the inhouse mixing desk...

But in a average blast beat section our drummer hits about 10 bassdrums per second, 5 snares and 5 hihats...

What is going to happen?
He will hit 10th bassdrum before protools has even played the first one???

I have no experience with the reality of this technology
Its just been a concept to me for along time

In looking into different softsamplers i came accross drumogog
Which works on sound replacement instead of midi replacement

Is audio faster and more precise for triggering samples than midi?

I can run audio cables from the ddrum module to the analog inputs on protools and use an instance of drumagog on each track to replace the audio with harddrive samples instead...

Is this going to be faster and more acurate then using the midi channels from the ddrum module and an using a softsampler like bdd, dfhs, kontakt, battery etc etc...

I dont understand why midi is slower or not as precise as waiting for an audio signal? The audio still has to be converted to digital? maybe thats alot faster than determining what midi note was just hit?

Running 1 midi cable from the stage to the protools interface would be beter than running 16 audio cables (although i dont know the limitations on midi cable lengths)

I also wanted to research wireless MIDI from the stage and almost have a completely wireless live drum system

I could also send the audio from the ddrum wirelessly to protools also, but 1 midi cable is cheaper than 16 wireless audio units...


Either way
Protools is awesome but they should be able to get midi working if not better atleast as well as any other program...
Are they short of money or something?


Peace
D
D

[Eugene]

Dear Digi, can we get some updated info about this problem?

Thanks