Quiet Bounce

[Josh16]

Hey guys.

I'm using pro tools as my main software for beat production. Basically, I'll make something then mix it, compression and EQ, but no matter my bounces are quiet and lifeless. I tried bouncing at both 16 and 24 bit depth. This especially happens to my kick (i do compress and EQ it/ I use a kick from the Xpand! library). I tried putting a compressor on the master and exporting the entire mix as a file, still nothing. I've always had this issue and it's getting annoying. HELP PLEASE!

I'm using PT 8.0.5 LE with MBox mini gen 3

[JCBigler]

I think you may have a couple of issues.

The first being a gain stage problem. Where is the volume set on your monitors? (are you using monitors or headphones?)

If the volume on your monitors is all the way up, and your levels within Protools are adequate for listening while mixing, then you need to turn your monitors down and then push the levels up to where you want them. Typically, I will mix with the main volume output at between 11 and 12 o'clock, which forces me to push the levels higher inside Protools until they get to where I want them before mastering.

Also, don't over do it on compression. It's a great tool, but too much will make your mix sound bad.

Also, your final mixes need to be mastered. You can do it yourself, or pay someone else to. But mastering is the final stage in the process. You can do the mastering yourself and get some pretty decent results. But a good mastering engineer can do some really surprising things.

[Josh16]

Thanks JCBigler.

I use headphones (I know it's not the best) output on the interface is always about half. I try to never overcompress mainly just on the master and kick. I definitely know mastering helps but there's a crazy difference between what is played in Pro Tools and what comes out. Any suggestions?

[Josh16]

JCBigler?

[JCBigler]

If you can post your signal chain and a more thorough description of your process. There's a lot of places in the signal chin where volume is effected.

Frankly, it's all probably going to come down to mastering. You can do your own in house master, it's not that complicated, just takes a little practice.

[Josh16]

On my master I have a compressor with a 3:1 ratio, 10dB threshold and I have a EQ boosting the low end and the high-mids. I parallel compressed my kick with a send to reverb (very little, like -15 dB). I a have Xpand! patch EQ'd with a send to reverb. Oddly, this sound from Xpand sounds pretty good definitely not radio/CD quality but about the level I expect from the whole track. Lastly, I have a Clap with EQ and a send to reverb. The Kick and Clap are Mono tracks which I placed right in the center. The Xpand sound is stereo in the center. This track is very simple. Any stand out to you? If you know anyone else that may can help please refer them to this thread.

[albee1952]

If you just need to make your mix louder, I suggest doing it all on the Master track. First insert-EQ set to hi-pass at 30Hz. Next-a brickwall limiter(like Waces L2, Massey L2007 or Avid Maxim). Set the output ceiling to -.02. Set threshold to show 2-3 db of gain reduction. Want it louder? Insert another brickwall limiter(same settings). I have gone as far as 3 in a row with a soft mix, but my mixes usually hit close to -0(for stuff that is NOT going out to mastering). The idea is simply to not make a single limiter do "all the work". Using 2 or 3, and having each do gentle GR(Gain Reduction), you end up with a better sounding product.

Now, having said all this, it won't make you a mastering engineer, any more than me, no matter how many "tools" I own. Self-mastering is not my preference, but sometimes is needed due to budget constraints. Rule #1-don't make it worse

And, in the interest of full disclosure, I DON'T master in Pro Tools. I work to make the mix as good as I can and bounce at the session settings(usually 24 bit/48K-interleaved). I open the "2-mix" in Wavelab and apply "mastering" there as it offers several advantages(such as spectrum analysis and near-instant rendering)

BTW, Waves L2 is my usual mastering limiter(mostly because I know it well). Massey L2007 is excellent and maybe the best bargain for that type of plugin. Maxim works okay, but I am not a big fan and rarely use it. There are other plugins, but most "standard" comp/limiters are not great choices for mastering.

[CME]

Another good tool is a metering plug. I tend to use meter plugs k-meter. It's essentially just a meter that uses bob Katz recommended levels as reference. Basically he suggests that's most music should have an average level of -14 dBfs. Loud music -12 and classical -20. Most music these days is around -9. Some even hotter. However you look at it, it's a great idea to have some kind of metering plug so that you know how loud your mix really is. And then you can use these recommendations to hit what ever average level you choose.

[Josh16]

albee1952: thanks for the advice. but can you explain how apply multiple compressors improves sound? Also, because i'm a broke college student, are there any free limiters for this technique so I can just try it?

CME: What's the difference between a metering plug in and the meter on the Master track already in Pro Tools?

[CME]

Basically it will give you a readout on exactly what your average level is. Instead of just looking at the meter and guessing.

And fwiw iTunes sets the library to about the k-14 standard if you have volume match turned on. So even if you end up with the song at -9, it would be brought down 5 dB in a volume matched library. Not that iTunes is any kind of standard.

But I hope it's at least a beginning of a trend away from limiting songs to the point of no headroom. Since I found that out I try to work with that in mind. It definitely helps IMO.