Why Native vs. DSP Cards?

[digimidi]

Originally Posted by albee1952

I sat thru a nice little demo tonight(thanks to Marshall Graphics and Kurt Howell) and came away with a new desire for HD/Native. From what I understand, the HD/Native card has some processing onboard that handles the mixer and IO, which takes a serious load off the CPU. They also explained that USB and firewire are much slower due to the fact that they move data in packets and are always doing double duty because they are constantly sending everything twice to make sure the data really went. That slows them both down a lot as compared to PCIe. Another cool option(if you have the cash0 is that you can add the PCMCIA port to your desktop machine and keep the Native card in the baby Magma chassis, which allows you to grab and run when you want to go portable with your laptop, but still patch it to your studio/desktop system quick and easy, with no change in performance(other than the difference in computer horsepower when going with a laptop. They demo'd a 165 track session with video on a MBP i7 at a 128 buffer(about 65 plugins). Pretty darn impressive When funds permit, I'll sign up

Just to clarify, the HD Native card handles the I/O traffic and the host CPU handles the mixing. Having the card handle the I/O traffic does free up the host to allow you to run at lower buffer settings than USB or FW interfaces.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by filosofem

Sampling Rate 48K Dave? And on what hardware I/O? OMNI. And IIRC Mix is a host duty.

p.s. any word on CPTK2 +hardware upgrade path?

HD/Native card in the baby Magma chassis($500), 96K 5.1 session thru the OMNI(stereo with the downmix function enabled on the OMNI, thru a pair of Equator speakers). Plus, they said that a 128 buffer on HD/Native has less latency than 64 on any firewire or USB non-HD system(because of the latency that is inherent to USB and firewire). I heard rumblings of some retail deals(including a grand off for trading in 002 or 003, and $500 for ANY Mbox(yes, even original), but my ebay and internet cruising has also shown some great deals. For instance, an HD/Native package from eBay($2250 give or take) and a used 96IO($700 give or take) and I can be HD/Native with 16 inputs for $3K(8 inputs being equal in quality to my present 003, which the 96IO gets compared to). Use the lightpipe input for my ISA428 with my lunchbox and I should be stylin'(just gotta find 3 grand laying around). Plus they said that the Euphonix controllers now have working windows drivers if I want controller functions beyond the little Faderport I just bought(which ain't bad at all).

BTW, The Avid rep insists that the HD/Native card is actually handling the mix engine. Not debating, just reporting what I was told.

[filosofem]

Originally Posted by albee1952

BTW, The Avid rep insists that the HD/Native card is actually handling the mix engine.

Originally Posted by digimidi

Just to clarify, the HD Native card handles the I/O traffic and the host CPU handles the mixing.

Sounds like some miss communication.

[filosofem]

Originally Posted by albee1952

They demo'd a 165 track session with video on a MBP i7 at a 128 buffer(about 65 plugins).

Originally Posted by albee1952

HD/Native card in the baby Magma chassis($500), 96K 5.1 session thru the OMNI(stereo with the downmix function enabled on the OMNI, thru a pair of Equator speakers).

Those are impressive stats alright even with a MacBook Pro.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by albee1952

HD/Native card in the baby Magma chassis($500), 96K 5.1 session thru the OMNI(stereo with the downmix function enabled on the OMNI, thru a pair of Equator speakers). Plus, they said that a 128 buffer on HD/Native has less latency than 64 on any firewire or USB non-HD system(because of the latency that is inherent to USB and firewire). I heard rumblings of some retail deals(including a grand off for trading in 002 or 003, and $500 for ANY Mbox(yes, even original), but my ebay and internet cruising has also shown some great deals. For instance, an HD/Native package from eBay($2250 give or take) and a used 96IO($700 give or take) and I can be HD/Native with 16 inputs for $3K(8 inputs being equal in quality to my present 003, which the 96IO gets compared to). Use the lightpipe input for my ISA428 with my lunchbox and I should be stylin'(just gotta find 3 grand laying around). Plus they said that the Euphonix controllers now have working windows drivers if I want controller functions beyond the little Faderport I just bought(which ain't bad at all).

Just get it and join us. You wont be disappointed. It's lonely over here in this neck of the woods.

Originally Posted by albee1952

BTW, The Avid rep insists that the HD/Native card is actually handling the mix engine. Not debating, just reporting what I was told.

Who was the Avid rep? Send him here. The mix engine is 64bit and done on the host computer, just to clarify for those reading.

...and there IS a big difference in sound over that old "flagship" product.

Shane

[nst7]

It seems like the HD Native has been slow to catch on and hard for some people to get their head around.

But it seems that everyone who actually uses one really likes it.

So hopefully it will catch on more and more.

[filosofem]

Originally Posted by nst7

It seems like the HD Native has been slow to catch on and hard for some people to get their head around.

Would a statement, that LE users seem to get their heads around the concept of HD Native faster than HD TDM users, be fair? And thus, logically, users of LE systems would be more likely to move on to a HD Native system.

[Greg M]

I totally agree with Shane. Just get it. You'll love it.

I think some of the confusion over the mixer might be because the manual that comes with the HD Native card has some "mis-statements" about the card and what gets processed. At least the manual that came with mine was a bit off.

Here are a couple of examples from the HD Native user guide:

Audio processing with up to 10 TDM or RTAS
plug-ins per track, depending on your computer’s

capabilities

(Native card won't do TDM plug-ins as far as I know.)

Additionally, the on-board
FPGA provides processing power for mixer configurations
and low latency monitoring with

Pro Tools.

(I'm pretty sure this is referencing the Mixer in the Hardware Setup.)

Greg

[Bob Olhsson]

I think the biggest market for HD native is probably people who want to upgrade a large HD system from a Mac G5 without needing to replace all of their HD cards. The Omni makes it a more attractive upgrade than TDM from LE but it's still not cheap.

[filosofem]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I think the biggest market for HD Native is probably people who want to upgrade a large HD system from a Mac G5 without needing to replace all of their HD cards.

Hmmm... when your back is up against the wall, it must be discouraging to put faith in a system that gives no guarantee, Mr Olhsson?