True or False or

[cwsand]

Neither is true - they aren't "problems", just something to be aware of.

[Top Jimmy]

Originally Posted by amagras

Then I'm right!
I understand the importance of proper gain staging but once you have everything inside Pro Tools you only have to worry not to saturate the analog algorithms of analog emulation plugins and the master/converters. That can easily be done with clip gain and the channel faders....unless you mean that once ITB gain staging doesn't exist at all

The simplest aspect of gain staging that everyone learns is to achieve a good signal to noise ratio without clipping. Stick to the job of recording long enough and hopefully you'll learn two other aspects of proper gain staging.

1) Don't drive the analog side too hot even without clipping unless that is what you want. The last 6dB in a circuit is the nastiest as far as sound quality.

2) Gain staging also needs to account for relative levels between tracks. Mixing begins at the gain knob. Learn this and you'll achieve great results quicker and easier.

[amagras]

Originally Posted by Top Jimmy

The simplest aspect of gain staging that everyone learns is to achieve a good signal to noise ratio without clipping. Stick to the job of recording long enough and hopefully you'll learn two other aspects of proper gain staging.

1) Don't drive the analog side too hot even without clipping unless that is what you want. The last 6dB in a circuit is the nastiest as far as sound quality.

That I can understand! Now I can say I agree even though I still need to hear more about how gain staging would relate to, or be relevant to for example, working with VIs or getting audio already digitalized.

Thank you very much, I appreciate all you guys taking the time to discuss this with me

Originally Posted by Top Jimmy

2) Gain staging also needs to account for relative levels between tracks. Mixing begins at the gain knob. Learn this and you'll achieve great results quicker and easier.

I could use a more detailed explanation of this part.

[albee1952]

If you think gain staging in the box doesn't matter, try over-driving a plugin by cranking another plugin that's ahead. I suspect that will change your mind

[Top Jimmy]

Originally Posted by amagras

That I can understand! Now I can say I agree even though I still need to hear more about how gain staging would relate to, or be relevant to for example, working with VIs or getting audio already digitalized.

Part of the art of recording and mixing is establishing your own personal references. That is, the volume at which you monitor, the position of your interface volume knob and the gain level at which you record to achieve your reference monitoring level at unity. Without establishing and sticking to your references, you'll basically be reinventing the wheel every time you start a new production. That's not a recipe for consistency and reliability.

VIs would still need to fall in line with proper gain structure to fall within your references. You don't want your VI to be super hot and then you have to pull the fader down 20dB. You want it to be in the ballpark at unity.

I could use a more detailed explanation of this part.

Every mixer I ever sent a song to either wanted just the files or a stripped down Pro Tools session devoid of everything except the regions in their tracks with the faders at unity. In each case, they want to hit play and hear a rough mix at unity. They shouldn't have to "pre-mix" the song to get an idea of it before they get to mixing. The only best way to do this (which makes the process of recording easier anyway) is for me to set preamp gains from the start to achieve this in the end. I'm not looking to get the highest signal to noise ratio without clipping, I'm looking to rough it in to where it belongs in the mix.

[cwsand]

Originally Posted by albee1952

If you think gain staging in the box doesn't matter, try over-driving a plugin by cranking another plugin that's ahead. I suspect that will change your mind

Yep, analog distortion is great - digital clipping? Not so much!

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by cwsand

Yep, analog distortion is great

Only if desired.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[amagras]

Originally Posted by albee1952

If you think gain staging in the box doesn't matter, try over-driving a plugin by cranking another plugin that's ahead. I suspect that will change your mind

I'm aware of that, I talked about it earlier

[amagras]

Originally Posted by Top Jimmy

Part of the art of recording and mixing is establishing your own personal references. That is, the volume at which you monitor, the position of your interface volume knob and the gain level at which you record to achieve your reference monitoring level at unity. Without establishing and sticking to your references, you'll basically be reinventing the wheel every time you start a new production. That's not a recipe for consistency and reliability.



VIs would still need to fall in line with proper gain structure to fall within your references. You don't want your VI to be super hot and then you have to pull the fader down 20dB. You want it to be in the ballpark at unity.







Every mixer I ever sent a song to either wanted just the files or a stripped down Pro Tools session devoid of everything except the regions in their tracks with the faders at unity. In each case, they want to hit play and hear a rough mix at unity. They shouldn't have to "pre-mix" the song to get an idea of it before they get to mixing. The only best way to do this (which makes the process of recording easier anyway) is for me to set preamp gains from the start to achieve this in the end. I'm not looking to get the highest signal to noise ratio without clipping, I'm looking to rough it in to where it belongs in the mix.

Thanks a lot Top Jimmy, this corroborates what I believe is correct too, very appreciated!!!

[amagras]

Originally Posted by cwsand

Yep, analog distortion is great - digital clipping? Not so much!

What is digital clipping?
How do you create it?