24fps to 25fps audio first ?

[barakka]

I have a project i've just been given, it's a 2hr feature that needs some sound work. It's been done so far by the director/editor and he's passed me the .mov and an aaf with linked audio, 48 tracks of audio grouped into location, foley, fx, atmos, and music.

Problem is it was filmed at 24fps and they want to do a UK DVD/Blu-Ray release so want it in 25fps, he's never done the conversion before and wants to know the best way.

He will be grading it while I edit the sound, should we both work at 24fps then combine and covert and just let it pitch up ? or do a pull up on the PT project before bouncing? or convert the video and re-conform the audio somehow ? (there's nearly 2k audio files in the aaf)

I've always worked at 25fps (and so has he since) so any advice/tips welcome
:)

[Frank Kruse]

Convert your master at the very end and work at 24 all the way. Depending on your deliverables list you might need to convert other items as well of course.

BD will do 24 just fine BTW. No need to create 25 for BD unless of course they ask for a 25fps BD master.
You only need 25 for the DVD (assuming it's only going to be released in the PAL world).

Frank.

[nucelar]

- First of all make sure you're working at TRUE 24fps, or 23.976 (aka 23.98). True 24 is a rarity today.

- The only medium that would require 25fps is DVD (and PAL TV). Bluray can stay at 24 or 23.98.

- There are two ways of converting 24 to 25:
- Conform (speed up 4%, needs audio conversion)
- Standards conversion (keeps duration, same audio can be used)

- In any case I would complete the project at the native framerate first. Only after 100% approval, begin the conversion to 25 fps using the full mix or using stems if you have the time.

- Pull-ups in session setup only affect playback, not bounces or record to disk.

Cheers

PD: Frank, I think we're on the same page :)

[barakka]

I thought it would be the case to stick with 24 until the end, just wanted to make sure before diving into it.

There will be Blu-Ray and DVD versions available, plus the last film they did got shown on TV as well, so 25fps is probably safest all round.

It's 23.976, i'd not heard of Standards conversion before but makes sense, i'll leave that up to him to decide.

If it's conform chosen would you lengthen the audio in Pro Tools or combine it with the video at 24fps and convert it externally ?

Thanks for the help.

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by barakka

There will be Blu-Ray and DVD versions available, plus the last film they did got shown on TV as well, so 25fps is probably safest all round.

It's 23.976, i'd not heard of Standards conversion before but makes sense, i'll leave that up to him to decide.

If it's conform chosen would you lengthen the audio in Pro Tools or combine it with the video at 24fps and convert it externally ?

Thanks for the help.

I wonder why they don't shoot at 25 in the first place if they have no intention to use the 24 or 23.976 anyway.

Almost every feature in Europe is shot at 24.00fps (be it digital or film) it's not really a rare format.
The US mostly use 23.976 to keep their downward compatibility down to NTSC VHS tapes or DVDs that someone might request during post.
The master however will then be pulled up to 24.00 as well in the end.

25 however is really only needed for TV or HD with downward compatibility to PAL based media (DVD, TV etc.).

You don't need to conform anything. Simply SRC your master(s). Import tracks with SRC (select the according preset from the drop-down menu).

This will vari-speed your files to the correct length. Wether you want to compensate for the pitch-shift is up to you. Some do it some don't. This has been covered in the past various times. Maybe do a search on the DUC regarding pitch correcting 24/25 conversions.

frank.

[barakka]

Originally Posted by Frank Kruse

I wonder why they don't shoot at 25 in the first place if they have no intention to use the 24 or 23.976 anyway.

It was a couple of years ago, the first time they'd shot on slr cameras, and they just left them set at default and it happened to be 23.976

Originally Posted by Frank Kruse

You don't need to conform anything. Simply SRC your master(s). Import tracks with SRC (select the according preset from the drop-down menu).

This will vari-speed your files to the correct length. Wether you want to compensate for the pitch-shift is up to you. Some do it some don't. This has been covered in the past various times. Maybe do a search on the DUC regarding pitch correcting 24/25 conversions.

Doh ! completely forgot about the pull up/down settings in SRC - amazing how quickly these things go out of your head when you're not using them regularly.

Thanks again for the help

[MIKEROPHONICS]

If your director arranges a time is time standards conversion in an alchemist or such like (the expensive but nice way where it does the jiggery pokery to the video) then your files will fine
If he arranges a frame for frame conversion (cheap and dirty often using software rather than pricey hardware) then you will need to convert