Overlapping Regions

[Brad Newman]

In PT when a large region completely covers a smaller region it removes the smaller region from the track. If a small region sits in a large region it cuts the large region in two.

When I move things out of the way for a moment to tweak something else - if I accidentally place it over another this happens.

Any way to have PT no do this and just overlay the region. I realize that it might not play the region that is buried, but maybe there is a “show covered region” or something so I could move it to another track. or not allow them to overlap in the first place?

[wolfskin]

Brad,

When overdubbing a track, you can 'duplicate playlist'. This will save your original take, and give you your new region over your old (on the new playlist). If you want to hear your old region, simply switch playlists. From there, you can copy / paste either region onto the other...

Make sense?

[Brad Newman]

What you say makes sense. But I am not overdubbing a track. Let me explain what I am doing.

Lets say i am working on 15 :30 second spots for the same client. Rather than having a session for each spot - I am doing it all in one session.

Each spot will require a bed, but I don't want 15 bed tracks. So I have one track called BED. The vo for the spot is on the mic track. I produce the first 2 spots. Then I run across a bed that would work better on spot 1. Spot 1 is only :30 seconds in length, so at :35 seconds on the BED track .. the bed for spot 2 starts.

The bed that I would like to replace in spot 1 is 2:00 min long (spot 1 is still going to be 30 seconds but the bed I am using for it is a 2 min file at the moment)

When I drag that to the BED track in place of the bed that is already there for spot 1 it will overlap the BED for spot 2 as well, and it blows spot 2s bed out. I just place the new bed that replaced bed 1 on the track for a moment and then resize it to the 30 second length it so it fits spot 1. Now spot 2 and maybe 3s if it overlapped is gone and I must put them back! Its a pain.

What I am doing to get around this now is making a "SIZE" track that I can drop regions to then trim edit and resize them then move them to the bed track.

Is there a better way to go about it.

[nikki-k]

Nope...this is how PT currently works. Sad, yes. I have been pissed about this one aspect for a long time. I have contemplated other DAW's due to this. Overlap an end (leading or trailing), and you can slide and nudge etc. Soon as you forgo that "law" and do as you described (cover a smaller region completely; or smaller on a larger, with leading AND trailing of larger underlying not covered), deletion, erasure, etc. occurs; no way to change that behaviour, unfortunately.

PT claims to be non-linear, but in fact, it is not; well, not fully non-linear. It is "2D" instead of being "3D," which a true non-linear app would be.

I suggest "stealing" from other apps, and then combining this with PT's current playlist feature. For ease of explanation, I iwll use Steiny's term "Lanes."

Audio tracks should be "expandable." When expanded, each track would show the underlying lanes. What the lanes contain is up to the user: either playlists, or takes/alternate regions. Topmost lane receives priority. Mutable regions AND lanes. If in Region Stack mode, with topmost receving priority, the track is essentially a single playlist, expanded to show all the undelrying regions in user creatable lanes. So, if you had done a cycle record, or if you had simply layered region atop region- they are all there! Expanded, this is easily seen and thus manipulated. Collapse the track, and this single, priority playlist plays just as it did when in expanded. Underlying regions, although present, do not get played unless a gap exists in the lane above it. Sorta like layers of gas escaping through breaks in the surfaces above them (or like the hot air i am spewing...lol...) This would be similar to what Steiny does, except it would be top down instead of bottom up in priority.

In Playlists Mode, when expanded, user sees all playlists, with most current, active one at the top. This would operate under similar rules to Region Stack mode. However, since playlists can contain stacked regions, there is yet another dimension to consider. The biggest benefit to expanded Playlists Mode would be th eability to mute and unmute lanes to audition playlists on the fly, and "steal" pieces from one playlist to place in another, all without the need to create multiple tracks and cope with either HD voice assignments, or irritating track muting hell as on LE/MP. This aspect (lanes PLUS playlist capabilities) is what pushes PT over any other app IMO.

Oh- and the user should be able to use a THIRD midi mode: mimic audio. We have "replace" and "merge." Often, I want to create new regions with each pass, and want to be able to layer regions atop one another. Currently, this is impossible. This third mode would allow for this, and would be an incredible compositional tool IMO. It would raise PT above others in this respect i think...unless someone already did this in some app?

I did not explain it fully or very well here, but I have created a PDF (explanation and pics), and sent it to Digi...who knows if they will ever even read it though...sorry to hijack slightly..

[lemix]

You go Girl...
Although I'm not a super heavy PT user this limitation was truly bothering me as well.
It would take three keysstokes (if I'm correct) to cut and paste a chunk of audio into the "destination" playlist.
I've had an ancient, now completely unsupported DAW from the mis 80's ( Spectral "PRISMA" ) that could display playlists either top to bottom, or one behind the others, top priority. If you cut into the topmost layer, the one below would be active, and visible.
Also..it had this wicked function; to arm the mouse to copy with drag ! And some more as well..
I'd love to see reactions from Digi on your suggestions..

be good,
andrew

[lego]

I've had an ancient, now completely unsupported DAW from the mis 80's ( Spectral "PRISMA" ) that

spectral was excellent. I still miss some of its features. I have both 16 & 12 track systems with all three software options ready to run in case PT breakes ;-)

[hef]

there was a system called the "DSP" from australia that was able to overlap regions- and then you could cycle through them. we had this PostStation System at my studio- it was awesome 5 years ago- but they went under-no upgrades or tech support. i believe the designer of that system now works at fairlight, so there systems may have this function. i do similar work where i have multiple spots in a session- replacing an ambience or music on one spot can be a pain. but having used a bunch of other systems- i can live with this defect-

actually...something is coming to mind which may be a work around to this. on PT 7, there's the region group function. i believe when you have a region group, you can drag a file over it and it will overlap it. i'll try this when i'm at the studio on monday. if this works you could just region group the spot and then drag in the music file and it will overlap the group. it may overwrite the audio it lays on top of. gotta check it out.

[Brad Newman]

I just tested this. The file on top is smaller than the region and it splits the region into two pieces. You can see this by moving the top region to another place and see the gaping hole in the group.

[EGS]

Spot 1 is only :30 seconds in length, so at :35 seconds on the BED track .. the bed for spot 2 starts... Is there a better way to go about it.

Here's my method of cutting multiple spots in PT. Put spot 1 at 10 mins on the timelime, spot 2 at 20 mins, etc. I use 10 min intervals because it makes all the math easier. Create markers called "spot 1", "spot 2" etc. and jump around as needed. Make a 2-beep on all tracks at 9 min 58 sec and then paste the 2-beeps exactly 10 min later, 20 min later, etc. Let's say spot 13 is the same as spot 11, except for the tag. Select all tracks, copy spot 11, paste it exactly 20 mins later, and revise the tag. If you try spacing your spot versions more than 5 seconds apart (as you describe above), it will solve your original pasteover problem.

[Brad Newman]

Very true. But I bounce to one file, so I would have to move everything closer when all is complete, or the bounce would take forever. But it is an option Thanks